To insist the kids are not equal?

[Elsielouise13]

Inspired by thread about sitting in the front of the car...

One thing I am fussy about when it comes to choosing seats is in a restaurant. I can’t stand it when children rush to seats ahead of adults in a restaurant and ‘bag the best options’. When we go for meals with friends I’ll always insist to my children they wait til the adults have chosen their seats before they sit down.

Several times I’ve been out with other parents who let the kids decide the seating and then struggle in and out for the duration of dinner.

I’ll be fecked if I’m paying for a meal and miss out on watching the room and get to only see my husband and the wall behind him.

And in our house the adults are the ones doing the adulting and that’s why my children spent most of the afternoon messing about about and I ironed school shirts.

I agree with you OP. I always hold my DD back until adults are seated. There are many reasons adults need to choose sears first eg

Being able to get the waiter’s attention.

Being pregnant or another reason for needing a soft seat or easy access.
Having a very young child they need to flank so child can’t escape or space for the high chair.
Some adults hate to have their back to a room, my friend’s DH was in the army and has PTSD.

If kids make a dash for the best seats (mine included) I just ask them to wait, then make a point of asking the kids parents if they have any particular seats they want, or asking the older family members where they’d like to sit. Kids do get excited and act impulsively so it’s up to the whole party to teach them good manners.

I have to sit in certain seats/part of the restaurant because of a mental health issue. Apart from that, it's fair game. We recently had a family meal out and it was lovely chatting to someone who was moving from child to adult and realising this as we had put first 'adult' type chat. I always love looking at my husband too.

I also think that during sit-down family meals, where there are multiple children present, I expect them to be encouraged to primarily chat to each other and for the adults to be able to chat without much input from children. I love the bones of all the children in our family but I definitely reserve the right not to consider under 18s my conversational equal.

Such a sad way of thinking about family meals! No wonder your children aren't very good at conversation if nobody talks to them!

This thread is so enlightening. I really don't understand the us & them thinking about adults and children, but I think attitudes like this go a long way towards explaining a)why so many young children need screens to get them through a meal and why so many teenagers seem unable to converse properly with adults.

The hierarchical approach to parenting also helps to explain why so many people end up in massive power struggles with their kids as teenagers. No wonder the teenagers are pushing back against the authority of their parents because it seems to be based on nothing other than spurious ideas about age and rank.

I have not taught my dd to respect her elders, I don't believe that age makes you worthy of more respect. I have simply taught her to respect other human beings. Yes, she would stand up for an elderly person on a bus, because they need the seat more than she does. She would be equally likely to stand up for a tired toddler.

Treating children with equal respect and dignity does not mean pandering to their every need. My dd is well aware that her needs and preferences are not paramount, they are considered alongside those of everyone else. However, she also knows that she isn't a second class citizen just because she happens to be a bit younger.

Also, just to add, I don't think any of us would dispute that elderly, disabled or pregnant people need to be given suitable seating. Likewise, if there is a smaller space, it makes sense for a smaller person to sit in it. This is just common sense and common courtesy, but it's very different from the hierarchical arrangement that the OP is talking about, in which the adults get to choose the "best" seats purely because their age gives them that privilege and implied superiority.

Anyone with practical physical restrictions gets the seat they're not physically uncomfortable or trapped in (for whatever reason, whether size or reduced mobility or back problems) so yes, sometimes children need to move for adults - less often adults move for a child in a wheelchair o ifr the high chair is needed and can only fit in one position.

The adults get the best view of the room idea in the opening post is very, very odd indeed.

I treat my children equally, because I don't want them to believe they're second class citizens because of their age.

In restaurants, certain seats make me feel stuck in and claustraphobic. So I'll try and get another seat, but in all honesty, I tend to put my DC before myself and would go without something for their benefit.

Not everyone holds that view though.

We always made sure the kids got the seats against the wall, or away from the "traffic" since any mess etc was minimised and wait staff could pass food via us, so we could check the temperature.

Never thought of "people watching" etc. Nowadays it just feels odd to sit facing out... or to sit on the inside seat of a booth in a diner style place.

I get it. Parents are in charge and are prioritised as such. My DC have never ever sat in the front of the car whilst a parent is relegated to the back. Parents up front represent togetherness, a partnership, seniority. Same with seats in a restaurant and on a plane. All part of a bigger picture.
My DM once did it wasn't a bad thing for DC to be ever so slightly scared of a parent. And now mine are teens, I think she was absolutely right.

My DM once did it wasn't a bad thing for DC to be ever so slightly scared of a parent.

I'd be mortified if I ever thought my child was scared of me.

FFS, why do we expect better behaviour from children than we do adult?

Equitably instead of equality in my house. It means that we all get what we need in order to enjoy the experience. That also means that dd will get more say than the rest of us on occasion.

My youngest chooses where she sits when we go out for good reason, and I have to sit next to her. It hasn't really affected me to be honest. [shrugs]

Sometimes I sit in the back of the car with her, and sometimes instead of her. Depends on what kind of day she is having and what her needs are. However I do not see myself as being better than her just because I am an adult.

Sometimes her & dh swap beds, so she is in with me, he in her bed.

Kids needs have to come first sometimes. I am glad that I am not selfish and understand that.

My DM once did it wasn't a bad thing for DC to be ever so slightly scared of a parent. And now mine are teens, I think she was absolutely right.

I respect your right to parent as you think fit, but I couldn't disagree more! I don't feel the need for my teenager to be scared of me at all, and I would be very sad if she was. Our relationship is based instead on mutual respect and consideration.

Each to their own....

YANBU maybe the restaurant is not a great example but when we have family round, (all 'children' are now teenagers) we do tend to have a 'seating plan' and priority does go to elderly grandparents who need to be more comfortable and the hosts tend to sit near the door. I do ask my teenage DS to help serve the meal etc.
I remember being slightly annoyed when going out with a friend and her DD (8ish at the time) sat in the front of the car when I was relegated to the back, I did think that was rude, I don't spend that much time with my friend and wanted to chat, not so easy from the back when she was chatting to her DD.
I do think some parents love to martyr themselves for their children, you see it all the time on here, many children get a shock in RL when they realise they are not the centre of the universe.

Same with seats in a restaurant and on a plane. All part of a bigger picture.

Do you mean you travel in business and your kids travel in economy? Other than that I’m stumped unless you sit separately with parents at the front and children separately at the back? This makes no sense though as you just have to lurk around waiting for them to get off anyway. What other priority is there with plane seats when travelling with your kids?

I do think some parents love to martyr themselves for their children, you see it all the time on here, many children get a shock in RL when they realise they are not the centre of the universe.

I completely agree. Children need to be taught that they are not the centre of the universe and that their wants and needs don't take precedence over anyone else's. However, that's very different from teaching them that their own wants and needs are less important than anyone else's, simply because they are children.

In your example of going in a friend's car, I would ask my dd to sit in the back, not because she was an adult and my dd was a child but because she was a guest in our car and should therefore be given the choice, or perhaps because mummy hadn't seen her for a while and wanted to chat to her. Not because of some inherent superiority due to age which automatically entitled her to the best seat.

What other priority is there with plane seats when travelling with your kids

Kids sit on inside, parents on aisle. Just like in a restaurant with a booth...

@Hoppingpavlova window vs aisle vs middle seat?

Your post has intrigued me 😀 So do you believe that children should just play all day and not learn to do things for themselves?
Children need to learn to be and adults. They don't just wake up one day and start being a adult.

The amount of adults who don't know basic self care; be that cooking, cleaning, hygiene because parents believed "aww they have so much on"... So we'll just do everything for them! That's on you! How do they learn basic life skills?

My 10 and 9 year strip their bed and change sheets (only on a Saturday) make sure they have toys tidy and room clean every evening. They can make lasagne and spag bog. We are moving on to making a roast dinner. They can also bake. But guess what, they get to play also!
My 5 year old can strip his bed also and he bakes too. We do it together.
They also have afterschool clubs and music lessons.

Thing is, I do insist on an aisle seat when flying, but that's because I feel very claustrophobic in middle or window seats. DD likes a window seat and DH doesn't care, so usually sits in the middle. The point is that all of us would show consideration to each other as a family, rather than adults pulling rank over the children.

I let the kids choose where we eat and where they wish to sit, then I order a starter, mains and a pudding and several expensive cocktails which I don't drink, then I use their Christmas money to pay for it. They only get a small bag of crisps and a small coke to share, between all 6 of them.

And I send my son to a school where the pre- prep children shake the hand of their teacher at the end of the day. They are not allowed to rush into lunch there either

Loving this as an example as to why you’re correct. DD did 9 years at a prep. They weren’t allowed to rush into lunch, they were allowed to pick their seats each day...

I really couldn’t care less if DD wants to pick where to sit when eating out. She would know to allow someone a certain seat if they needed it, other than that she absolutely has as much right to choose where to sit.

As far as I’m concerned we are a family, decisions are made together, not in a rank.

Well I’ve heard it all now, PP suggesting a link between children choosing their own seat and developing MH problems is hilarious!
OP I’m guessing you think that children should be seen and not heard too, right? And you also wouldn’t allow your children to talk to you when your friends are around either, I imagine. You’re not really talking about equality with adults and children, you’re talking about a pecking order OP. And in your skewed opinion children are at the bottom of the pecking order. It’s utter nonsense.

cptartapp said "parents up front represent togetherness, a partnership, seniority" both in a car and on a plane, that's why people are wondering what she means. Parents wouldn't normally sit next to one another on a plane if they have small children, they'd normally do book ends or one parent per row in aisle seat, dependent on number and ages of children.

Personally I’m happy enough to let my dc pick seats as now I’m a grown up I don’t care that much where I sit.

I’m not bothered about seats in a restaurant but I do think some pains need to be taken to show children where they stand when they live lives where everything is done for them and paid for on their behalf. Not everything will go their way, and sometimes it’s worth pointing out. Other times not.

So equally, there might be some occasions where I say, “No, DC, I want to sit next to Dad today.”