To insist the kids are not equal?

[Elsielouise13]

Inspired by thread about sitting in the front of the car...

One thing I am fussy about when it comes to choosing seats is in a restaurant. I can’t stand it when children rush to seats ahead of adults in a restaurant and ‘bag the best options’. When we go for meals with friends I’ll always insist to my children they wait til the adults have chosen their seats before they sit down.

Several times I’ve been out with other parents who let the kids decide the seating and then struggle in and out for the duration of dinner.

I’ll be fecked if I’m paying for a meal and miss out on watching the room and get to only see my husband and the wall behind him.

And in our house the adults are the ones doing the adulting and that’s why my children spent most of the afternoon messing about about and I ironed school shirts.

I would normally be facing my children so I can talk to them, smallest in the spot she’s least likely escape from so back to the wall.
Then they can pick who they sit next to.
Happy kids make for a nicer meal.
I’m older and can control with my emotions
(I also a grown arse women who is past sulking about not getting the “good” seat)

My grandmother (DOB 1926, so it’s not a generational thing) always said it’s about teaching children that everyone looks out for each other & those whose needs are greatest in any situation take priority. My son gets to choose where to sit at a restaurant table & has done since I realised that because of early life history (adopted) certain positions - ‘trapped’ or unable to see who is coming up behind him - make him feel existentially unsafe. But if one of us has to go in the back in someone’s car, then it’s him because I get car sick in the back. DGM on the other hand would sit in the back if we were staying as children (assuming we were 12+ ish) because it didn’t bother her & it brought us pleasure. Everyone looks out for each other. Thank you, Grandma. A good principle to grow up with.

When we eat out with friends we seat everyone practically (kids together and at least one parent close enough to deal with anything). So I agree with you that adults should choose but not for reasons like the views or having the best seat-I’d gladly let my child, who I’ve chosen to take out for dinner, have the BEST seat.

My DC have always had very good manners and know how to behave in restaurants etc. However, as they have grown up I have allowed them to make certain choices - we take turns on deciding what restaurant to go to and where to sit. Seems fair enough - we are a family not a dictatorship. I am on my own so when we go on road trip holidays etc its quite hard work being the only one making all the decisions so its good to share decision making and them have a stake in the choices we make - not all but some. Now they are 19 and 17 it works very well as they are growing into adults and our role as parents is to make them independent.

The thing is I'm an adult now and don't get upset over where I am sat around a table, I mean when I was 8 it caused a great deal of arguments with my older brother, but as a 30 odd year old not so much.

When we go out for a meal I say to my children "where (on the table) would you like to sit?" They pick and me and my husband just sit wherever. They are an equal member of the family, yes we are the adults but stupid things like where to sit, err that was something I stressed over aged 8.

I don't get this hierarchy thing going on, yes I'm the adult and I'm "boss" technically but small things, can't say we get worked up over them. I bet you are the sort if they dropped their ice cream and you still had yours you'd say fuck you this is MINE I'm the adult !!!

Blimey. I’ve given this more thought in the few seconds than I opened this thread than I have in my almost half a century on the planet.

It's the "little emperor" syndrome

psychology-spot.com/emperor-syndrome-education/

I can kind of see what you mean to a point OP. Sometimes children do need to give adults first choice over things like seating. My children are skinny, even though they are all taller than me now, so if there are seats that are harder to get into, or that potentially would inconvenience other diners if larger people sat in, then I expect the kids to sit there. If they dashed off and sat down thoughtlessly, expecting me or DH to limbo into some tight corner,then we would be having words. But it would be the thoughtlessness that I would pull them up on, not that they had dared take a seat without my authority. Generally they automatically get into any awkward seats without being asked, but if there is nothing practical to differentiate between seats I don't care who sits where. I expect everyone at the table to be talking to each other before and during the meal and there are only 4 of us most of the time these days, so who cares who is facing who?
At a big extended family gathering they would tend to want to congregate at one end of the table with the other youngsters I suppose and I think most of the adults would want the same! We all defer to the grandparents - they are not terribly mobile so get first choice - then everyone fits in around them. I can't think of an occasion when there has ever been a disagreement on seating.
I expect my children to be polite, and to respect others. Mostly I am not disappointed. However, I think they are also entitled to expect to be treated politely and with respect. Like the adult members of the family they have both rights and responsibilities. Obviously as adults we have more life experience than they do, and we are the bill payers which often does give us the last word on things, but that isn't to say that they aren't entitled to opinions and on some subjects they do know best. So I guess I do see them as equal in some ways but not others. Their well being is absolutely equal to mine or DH's but they don't always get their own way!

I cant stop laughing at this
You sound bat shit crazy

Ds gets to choose where he sits because he is the one bothered by noise, being able to see the room and feeling safe. I position myself so that he will have to get past me to get out.

I've never ever chosen a seat in a restaurant with the idea of 'watching the room' in mind.

I'm eating with the people I'm with and, hopefully, will be engaging in conversation with them and look at them when I do so.

I have absolutely no interest in who else is in the room, nor do I care what those other people are eating.

Do people really go out to eat in order to stare at total strangers eating food?

Your Grandma sounds like a wise woman Freddie. Not a bad way to live your life rather than sticking to rules or etiquette based on arbitrary reasons.

@freddiethegreat
I think that's it. Consideration for whoever needs the space more. If it was something that brought my child joy, I see no reason to insist on taking their place or making them move but I'm also confident if I needed the soace/chair etc. I wouldn't even have to ask they would move

'I love people watching. The best seats are a window table where you are looking at one another but also able to see out of the window.
Maybe I’m nosy - but given this thread and the fact that in my family we always want the outward looking seats it’s obviously not just me!' (Quote)

Sorry poster to not acknowledge you but I haven't worked out how to quote, post emojies, etc, but, you are me. In our local pub my preferred table (to the extent where as we're pulling into the car park and I can see it's free I shout 'Let me out of the car now' ['once you're in a safe position to stop, of course':-)] is the bay window one where I can have surveillence of what's happening outside but also be in a position to make up my own narratives about the customers who are inside. I absolutely love people watching, and you can't do that if you're facing a wall (even if the wall is behind your handsome husband).

My son (now an adult) was convinced I worked for MI5 because I have to have my back to the wall and face the door, but no, I just need to create my own storylines for everybody who comes in and out. (Although in my job I have signed the Official Secrets Act :-) which is lifelong.) As a child he knew the adults were in charge, but he also knew that, as a human being, his thoughts, experiences, etc were completely on a par with adults, in that they were respected, just not necessarily paramount.

Clearly some of you have rarely dined out with eight other families

I would pay good money to avoid it . I love my friends and family, but not all at once.

I think you're being U, OP. My kids wouldn't rush into a restaurant anyway, but I can't recall one single time it's ever been an issue, to be honest.

OP I think you and car seat poster could become great friends.

As children we were raised to give DF the best seat. So he could see the room. I did think back then it was a bit ridiculous. However, if we're out with kids, we'd make sure that the adults would have the "better views".
Even something simple like not having a wall to stare at.

So yes, OP I am with you, for when the kids are about. Also would consider a seat with a fast exit to the loo, if kids are very young.

I've got it! The best seat in the room is the one nearest to an exit or escape route!

Sure I heard that in a Bourne film, so it must be true.

As a child he knew the adults were in charge, but he also knew that, as a human being, his thoughts, experiences, etc were completely on a par with adults, in that they were respected, just not necessarily paramount

Yes, I think this sums up what we aim for too.

When I was in my teens\20s, it was considered po!it's and all-new for the woman to face the room (so she can be admired by all) and for the man to face the woman (so as not to be distracted from her beauty and charm). There were a few other reasons, li me her being in a safer\better protected position, but I can't remember any more of them now. DH by contrast will always grab the window seat so he can watch whatever's going on outside.

"... It was considered polite and well-bred for the woman...."

I teach my children that they are equal and allow them to make decisions. The only time I overrule them is it their behaviour is naughty (causing a scene or dangerous for example). If they’re being good and just want to choose a seat or something I’d not dream of kicking off about it! Crazy. Why shouldn’t they get to choose their own seat? Do you make every state their dates of birth and then only let them sit down one by one in order of oldest to youngest, or...?

Oh dear, it all seems to have gone a bit downhill.

Just sit at the table and enjoy your dinner. There's no need to make it into a song and dance about deferring to adults.

The young children in my family are generally allowed to choose their own seats etc up until the point that they start whinging about the arrangement, at which point we return to the dictatorship model.

I also think that during sit-down family meals, where there are multiple children present, I expect them to be encouraged to primarily chat to each other and for the adults to be able to chat without much input from children. I love the bones of all the children in our family but I definitely reserve the right not to consider under 18s my conversational equal.