Laurence Fox on Question Time

[SuckingDieselFella]

It isn't ok to try and shut anyone up with remarks about their skin colour. It doesn't matter if that skin colour is white, black or green with purple spots.

His fellow actors have been told to "denounce" him. It looks like he can wave goodbye to his career. What lovely tolerant people the ultra woke are.
www.thestage.co.uk/news/2020/laurence-fox-labelled-a-disgrace-to-industry-following-question-time-race-row/

Hi, @Oakenbeach that's not what it means! Definitely, think you've fundamentally understood it. Scroll back or Google, I think it will make sense and you won't disagree when you see what it's actually describing!

Please can you let me know what this means, the more "traditional sense of British, or more particularly English, identity felt by those outside London and our other metropolitan melting pots."

So BAME people have an advantage in seaside and industrial towns?

that the black and ethinc soudning names are less likely to be recruited than the white sounding name.

Just a little point, there are many, many others.

But yes repeatedly identifying that white people can be economically underprivileged absolutely demonstrates that you don't understand.

“I’m absolutely ashamed of my race (white) but thank god at least I’m not Male. Utter twats”
🧐
Some people shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard

@Oakenbeach are those people deprived because of the colour of their skin? Do they face barriers in their life that make things more difficult because of the colour of their skin? Is it the colour of their skin that makes it more challenging for them to succeed?

Arguably yes. Politically more has been done to support POC in terms of legislation (e.g. Equalities Act) and the promotion of racial equality by the political elite (which I believe are extremely good and necessary things by the way) than to support those predominantly white communities that have been left behind in a way those communities with higher BAME populations haven’t been.

As I outlined earlier, a philanthropist who donated money to support the education of white working class boys struggled to get his donation accepted by institutions due to the fear of being tainted by accusations of racism. Stormzy (rightly!) had no such barriers when he sought to help black students to access higher education.

You have misunderstood the Stormzy situation, both Oxbridge colleges have many scholarships that for structural reasons it would almost be impossible for a POC to achieve.

And no equalities legislation does not make it less likely that white people from seaside towns are less likely to get on because of the colour of their skin.

I’m absolutely ashamed of my race (white) but thank god at least I’m not Male. Utter twats

How pathetic 🙄

I'm intrigued now, @Oakenbeach!

Please can you answer my question about what a "traditional sense of British, or more particularly English, identity felt by those outside London and our other metropolitan melting pots" is?

3rd time lucky?!

@rockingchaircandle

traditional sense of British, or more particularly English, identity felt by those outside London and our other metropolitan melting pots

Ok, a couple of examples.... People I know, myself included, would feel uncomfortable flying a St George’s flag for instance, as to show national pride is somehow akin to racism.

People feeling like nativity plays etc are under threat because of attempts to undermine and ridicule cultural Christianity in a way that would
never be done for Islam or any other religion.

But yes repeatedly identifying that white people can be economically underprivileged absolutely demonstrates that you don't understand

And if that economically underprivileged white person has lived all their life in a BAME neighbourhood, BAME majority school, workplace etc. Are they still more privileged than their middle class BAME neighbours, BAME doctor, local business owner etc, just because of the colour of their skin?

And no equalities legislation does not make it less likely that white people from seaside towns are less likely to get on because of the colour of their skin.

I accept that.... It’s more that more political capital
has been expended in supporting those in BAME communities than those in the left behind seaside and industrial towns. Otherwise, why are they bottom of the educational and poverty tables?

"To show national pride is akin to racism"

Yeah cause when it flies everywhere in England during world cups and other football events everyone associates it with racism.

It has been associated with racism because racist people used it as a political symbol.

Feeling like nativity plays are under threat?

Are you just listing things that never happened and have been published in the Daily Mail.

Nothing says British like the celebration of a Roman Festival where we commemorate the birth of a Jewish man to a Palestinian mother

You have misunderstood the Stormzy situation, both Oxbridge colleges have many scholarships that for structural reasons it would almost be impossible for a POC to achieve.

No, I am more than happy for Stormzy to have provided those scholarships, and recognise there are structural reasons why those from certain BAME backgrounds would struggle more than from other backgrounds.

However, there are equally structural reasons why working class white boys struggle with educational attainment.

There are many complicated reasons why certain areas come bottom of the education tables and have high levels of poverty. None of them are to do with the colour of the skin of the people that live there or the fact that they are discriminated against because of the colour of their skin.

Stormzy didn't offer the scholarships to a school though. Both schools said they would not discriminate on the grounds of race.

There are many complex reasons why white boys are the lowest attaining group educationally, but none of them are down to the colour of their skin.

As for the CV test... I would bet money that there would be systematic bias against those with typical white working class names for professional jobs. I bet a top law firm is likely to be more squeamish about employing a Dwayne than a Shilpa.

Clutching at straws.

Thanks for your examples, @Oakenbeach.

With regards to the flag, it is a shame that has been associated with racism. But I there are many many people in London who would definitely agree, so I don't see this as a part of British identity 'felt by those outside London and our other metropolitan melting pots' alone. I lived in London during the Olympics and it was flying everywhere!

With regards to Nativity plays etc, I don't think this is a practice that is peculiarly 'English' or located outside the cities. It's celebrating the birth of a baby in Bethlehem! Many BAME people are Christians. Religious intolerance isn't restricted to Christianity. To be British isn't to be Christian.

Definitely, there are structural inequalities for the WC, I agree here!

I'm not ashamed to be white because I am not racist. I feel no guilt over my white privelege at all, only sadness that BAME don't have the same priveleges in many instances.

I didn't watch the QT but I have been lurking on this thread and I do think it very naive and presumptuous for L Fox to assume MM has not experienced racism in Britain, and that racism isn't a problem here.

I do take issue with the belief that whites can never be victims of racism though. Ask an Irish Traveller or Jew or even an Pole or Romanian or Lithuanian and they will probably tell you otherwise! However, the racism these people suffer is more likely to come from other white groups. Usually.

The "only gay actors can play gay parts" is absolutely horrendous and stupid. Being gay does not affect the appearance like asking for an actor of a certain ethnicity to play a part, eg like asking a person of colour to audition to play Othello- asking for a white person to audition for that part would be stupid! The hummus thing also stupid- why pay extra to get hummus from a specialist middle eastern deli miles away when it is far easier to go to Aldi, a white European supermarket, for it? Am on a limited income, and Aldi and Lidl are my only options!

AutumnRose Thanks for sharing your experiences on here- I am sorry that you have ben treated so rudely by some on this thread. The irony of these "woke" SJWs on here assuming they know better than a non-white person's lived experience. I am white but I feel exactly the same about the "woke" thing going too far

It all comes down to the problem being racism, not some white fashionista wearing cane rows in their hair or cooking Jerk cooking. SJWs are not helping the real issues by heaping a burden of guilt on white people who are not racist, but who simply are not able to bend backwards to be woke

No one has claimed white people can't be the victim of racism either.

That is not the same as benefiting from white privelege.

Oakenbeach

I hear ya. Although I think racism is a big problem, I think class is just as big or even bigger one. I studied my degree in Law, and although I did not go on to practice I saw many Asians represented in the profession. Not so many blacks though. And very few working class White Irish or British, Funny, that.

Its not funny at all.

There are of course economic and class priveleges too.

malylis

Maybe not so much on this thread but I have seen it on MN umpteen times.

I do agree white privelege does exist but realistically what can I, as a white person who is disabled and living just above the poverty line, do about it? Not being goady, am really serious. Because I sense often there seems to be a lot of anger agaisnt us white priveleged folk, even those of us who really don't have any power.

You don't have to do anything about it other than acknowledge that it exists