AIBU to consider having one in grammar and one in private?

[Holidayinginmymind]

My DD has gotten into the local(ish) superselective grammar. It is all girls, and we think it is the perfect school for her. She is very bright, competitive and loves a challenge. For us, this school was the perfect choice for her (or near perfect, might have chosen a different grammar had we been closer to it). We preferred this to the local selective girls private.

My son is bright, but not as stand out as my DD. He is creative, sporty, bright and a perfectionist who would prefer not to try than fail. My concern with him is that, on the one hand, in the local superselective boys schools (if he got in), he would feel like a failure because he wouldn't be top of the class. On the other hand, he is sociable and popular, and if he were in a school where being clever wasn't cool, I think that he would happily coast along. He is naturally curious, and insecure. He is also very sporty (plays for a local football team, is a competitive swimmer). There is a local private school that I think would be perfect for him. It is selective, and has strong academic standards, but also very strong sport, art and music (I get the impression you can find your tribe, whatever your interests). We want him to try for a scholarship (which is potentially much more than the nominal 5%'s you often get nowdays). IF he got in and IF he got a good scholarship, then we think we could afford for him to go.

I had assumed, this would be fine with my DD because her school feels like it will be such a good fit for her. But she is a bit upset at the idea that her brother might get to go to this school because they have much better facilities than her school will have. We couldn't have afforded for her to go to the girls private because their scholarships are tiny. My question is, AIBU to consider private for one and not the other? If you don't think I am, do you have any thoughts/experience/advice on how to manage (and resolve?) my DD's current feeling of missing out? I don't want her to feel it is unfair. But I also want to find the best school for my DS.

Please don't underestimate how a highly academic atmosphere can affect even the brightest most studiest girl. I speak from experience. That's why I asked about extra curricular activities including sports and dance. I went to a high-performing state grammar and I'm sixth form we had only an hour a week for PE. I'd been missed off a list so didn't even do that. More exercise and fresh air was much needed.

Come on, even with a “substantial” scholarship, which are rare, fees must amount to £50k-£100k or so

So you are spending a LOT on him. The private will have much, much more cash to spend per head, there will be more staff, smaller class sizes etc.

It doesn't feel fair to me - We sent all 5 of ours to private school but then I work full time as a lawyer etc and could afford it. Here perhaps let the boy try for a similar state grammar as his sister and if he doesn't get in send him to the private school but think about increasing your earnings or taking a second job so that the daughter could perhaps move to a very selective private school for the 3 GCSE years and beyond if she wants to. The facilities and whether they are used often depend on the child. Some of my children ahve been huge joiners, clubs every night, teams, choirs and others not done a single thing almost - one of my sons now at university (wqith very good grades from an all boys' private school ) had a teacher who said he might as well have attended by correspondence course given his lack of speaking in class (he speaks a lot at home). They all just differ.

May be ask your daughter what she would like eg lots of new extra curricular things or summer camps at private schools or something and that might keep her happy. Or offer her a private sixth form in a very academic school if she gets in. I remember interviewing some girls who wanted to read law at university at my daughter's then school (North London Collegiate - which is a fairly academic girls' private school) and a few of those had moved for sixth form and that seemed a good compromise for some of those.

Her school will have a lot of very bright girls, and I think she will discover that the world is her oyster, whatever her passions become.

All alternatively feel like a small fish in a big pond.It's true that she won't have to pretend that she's not as smart as she is but I doubt she would have to do that at a private school or indeed any comprehensive either.Stop trying to pretend that the only reason you are considering grammar rather than private for your daughter is because you believe it is the best fit for her. The reason is you can't afford private for both your children.

All or

I went to a high-performing state grammar and I'm sixth form we had only an hour a week for PE.

They don't do any PE at my children's grammar in the sixth from.

If she doesn't do as well as expected (for any reason) and your son does better than expected then she will always resent it and blame it on the fact that she never got the opportunity to go to private school

If you can only afford private via a scholarship and would struggle if that scholarship were removed then you can’t afford private school. To flourish there you need to be able to afford all the clubs / extras etc which you can’t do. If he isn’t good enough for grammar then you must prepare him for a normal comp

I’m baffled at the number of posters on this thread who take the default view that private is always better than grammar. It really isn’t: you just have to look at the results, and you also have to look at what your children need.

It comes down to whether you value money or education. I don’t particularly value money: we pay fees for ds1, because his school charges fees. We have a sensible and reasonable life with the money we don’t spend on fees. Ds2’s school doesn’t charge fees. But if it did, we’d pay them, because it’s the right school for him. We are interested in educating our children, not keeping tally of who costs us most. Ds2 could not attend any local school which is more suited to his needs than his grammar school. The private schools wouldn’t provide the academic stretch he’s getting, and he doesn’t want to be doing drama or music or debating. There is a private boys’ school 45 miles away which would provide the right sort of atmosphere but the commute would be ridiculous. Or we could send him to board: Winchester might suit him - but he really doesn’t want to be away from home. And he’s getting what he needs from his excellent grammar school...

Why does PE really matter at sixth form level? At my selective grammar we didn’t have PE as there wasn’t room in the timetable For it. There were optional school teams, and lots of people were very sporty and did sports outside of school and the school teams as well. There was also a gym you could use before and after school and lunchtime yoga, badminton and I think netball clubs and we’d arrange our own little tournaments and things but I don’t think 18 year olds need PE lessons, it’s weird. They’re adults - when they go to uni they can join rowing club or lacrosse club or whatever to stay fit but it’s optional and that’s how it should be !

I don’t know what sports your son does OP but if he’s THAT good then would a comprehensive school not be good enough and put a lot of emphasis on his sports as extra curriculars ? Is he on the academy for a big football or rugby team for example ? That’s an education in itself and quite a commitment. Or does he just like ‘sport’ in general, in which case will he qualify for a scholarship? There might be kids going for them who’re competing at national level or signed to Arsenal or whatever.

I’m baffled at the number of posters on this thread who take the default view that private is always better than grammar. It really isn’t: you just have to look at the results, and you also have to look at what your children need.

Well no you don't just have to look at the results because unless the independent school has a similar entrance exam and takes children at a similar level you aren't comparing like with like. People think the Independent schools are likely to be better as they have smaller class sizes and often better facilities. What is baffling about that?

@FizzyGreenWater articulates the issues very well; I was in a class at a selective grammar where ten of fifteen girls had a brother whose education was private.

The other telling detail is when you said that you couldn't afford to send both, so she didn't sit the private school exams. It was never on offer for her. Unless you put away money equal to the fees, and gift them to her later, or pay for her to join the local posh clubs - pony riding, sailing, something expensive where she will make contacts and learn how to behave like rich people - she will know you economised on her education, and she is highly unlikely to think it is fair. I guess there are more factors at work as to whether she will ever believe you love her as much as your son.

I’m baffled at the number of posters on this thread who take the default view that private is always better than grammar. It really isn’t: you just have to look at the results, and you also have to look at what your children need.

It also doesn't take into account the added value of private schools, which is the confidence they seem to instil in most that go through that system, the ability to pursue extra curricular activities, and the connections.

I was an A grade student at my bog standard comprehensive so I couldn't have academically done any better at a private school. But I don't walk through life on a cloud of self confidence like my privately educated dh does, and the name of my school doesn't open doors.

People who use grammar and private schools for different children are kidding themselves that their dc are getting the same deal.

Surprisingly, there is evidence, tested over many studies in different settings, that class size has very little impact on learning, as long as there is the right level of attention whilst learning to read.

Likewise, everyone loves uniform, but it has not been shown t have any effect on behaviour or results.

YANBU

My friend is in a similar position - although her super intelligent son goes to a very academically driven private school he gets a scholarship because of how clever he is.

Friends other son first I the local comp. he gets a bit pissed off at times.

I will say though - getting a scholarship is VERY intrusive. She had to show bank statements and prove she couldn’t afford it. She has to let them know if she buys a new car or goes on an expensive holiday and it all gets revalued at the beginning of every new year. This effects job positions and pay rise she could potential go for because it will effect her income pushing her out of the range for a scholarship. The scholarship can get withdrawn at any time. She still has to pay quite a fee upfront.

It’s not that straight forward to get a scholarship, your son will have to extraordinary and outstanding and be an asset to the school because they will want him to raise their grades or profile. He will have to earn his education and the minute he starts slipping and some one better comes along they may well pull his funding.

You need to consider all of this.

My youngest two go to private so I know why you would want to give him the chance but it’s risky if you can’t afford it properly

My DC went to different schools. Both state primary the eldest went to comprehensive and did exceedingly well. He was a hard working and easy boy. Youngest didn’t get a place at the same school and was, ahem, a more tricky character so we chose a small independent school where he got into less trouble than I would have anticipated at the other state schools on offer. He also did very well.

You seem quite confident that your DS can get a sporting scholarship? Do remember that they are usually reviewed annually. If he goes off swimming with all those hideous early Mornings and weekends at competitions, he might lose the scholarship halfway through. Then what do you do?

Incidentally neither of my DC was remotely bothered by any perceived discrepancy. They are different people. Why treat exactly the same?

Surprisingly, there is evidence, tested over many studies in different settings, that class size has very little impact on learning, as long as there is the right level of attention whilst learning to read

Rubbish. I’ve worked in a school setting and taught sports to children for over ten years, class size is everything . You cannot deliver a quality lesson to 30 +kids. The majority of time is taken up with class management.

It was the biggest reason why I put my kids in private.

She has to let them know if she buys a new car or goes on an expensive holiday

This effects job positions and pay rise she could potential go for because it will effect her income pushing her out of the range for a scholarship.

So the other child at the local Comp misses out again, as things need to be restricted in order to keep his brother's scholarship. No wonder he's pissed off.

I would give them both the opportunity for grammar and send them to the local high school/ comprehensive if they don’t pass .
I live in a grammar school area , only one fully independent school in the whole of the country . My eldest goes to the local high school , my youngest will probably go to a grammar . They choose their school based on their ability.

The only thing you’re buying your son at a private school is privilege, brains aren’t a commodity.

I think sport/physical activity is really important through 11-18 especially for girls partly to stay for and partly to make sure they can view their bodies as something other than objects of scrutiny/desire/objectification.

At my selective grammar we didn’t have PE ...There was also a gym you could use before and after school and lunchtime yoga, badminton and I think netball clubs and we’d arrange our own little tournaments and things but I don’t think 18 year olds need PE lessons, it’s weird. They’re adults - when they go to uni they can join rowing club or lacrosse club or whatever to stay fit but it’s optional and that’s how it should be !

You were v lucky to have had all of those facilities. We didn't have any of that and eating disorders were rife.

So the DD doesn't get the chance to apply for private, because her brother may need it incase he doesn't want to make an effort like she has had to? I can't work out if this is meant to be a compliment of sorts for the daughter She isn't there through hard work from OP though.

The right school for the right child. Doesn't matter what that is. Anything else is unfair to the child.

I do find it interesting that people perceive private school people to have a cloud of confidence. I went private, DH went to state. I was shy as a teenager, as was one of my brothers - to the extent that we disliked asking waiters/waitresses for stuff in restaurants and answering The phone.

We are quite confident people now.

DH thinks private school made us more confident but I’m not sure how. We didn’t take part in debating Club or drama etc. We didn’t have lessons in public speaking... being ok with being wrong or asking a potentially silly question helps - ie not feel embarrassed or take it personally...