To think it’s normal for high earners to get home late/work long hours?

[NCDays]

SiL got a new job last year which was a significant step up from her previous role and she now earns enough to pay additional rate tax (so must be £150k +). The job is in London which is a 30-40 minute train journey away, plus a short tube journey to her office. Over the past year we’ve constantly been hearing about “poor SiL” / “life is unfair to SiL” from MiL and the rest of the family as SiL is not home most week days until 8pm and leaves for the day at 6am. It’s supposedly a 9-5 job, she’s only a year in to the role and is apparently already exhausted and drained from working longer than her contracted hours and struggling to cope with the constant train delays/cancellations on top of that, meaning she has no time for herself or her hobbies during the week. I should point out that SiL is 29 with no DC, so she’s certainly not coming towards the end of her career.

AIBU in thinking that this is all pretty standard stuff and par for the course for successful, high earning city worker?! The rest of the family seem to think I’m mad in thinking it’s to be expected.

Hmm I'm a bit torn on this one. I know lots of high earners who don't have a great work/life balance, but I also know of lots of struggling households who are maybe working 2 jobs and are requesting over time, just to make ends meet and they still sometimes don't.

So no, I wouldn't feel sorry for your SIL, as she does have a choice and as I said, there are people who are working those kind of hours, who are definitely not high earners and they don't have a choice, if they want to keep a roof over their head and put food on the table. These are the people I do feel sorry for.

My DP is very lucky that they WFH most days and is a very high earner, but no, this isn't the norm and we feel lucky.

I think we have the same SIL and MIL?
I work full time (but from home) and have 2 small children, hubby has his own business and is out of the home from 8am to 9pm 6 days a week and works at home on a Sunday too. So we are pretty busy and pretty tired like most people in our position.

HOWEVER! All we hear from MIL is how hard SIL works, how her employers expect her to stay late, how she has a long commute. Seriously it’s like she’s a heroine. Similar to yours - she’s 30, childless, rolling in money, constantly going skiing or on city break weekends, and yes she works in a job where she is regularly expected to stay after 5pm. Most “city” type jobs do. Even SIL had the cheek over Christmas to tell me she was so tired that she had slept til mid day during her leave. Pffffft! I can’t wait til she has kids and has a big (5am) wake up call after working late the night before

DH is a very high earner but tried to strike a better work-life balance when DS was born. He manages to be out of the house for under 12h a day most days of the week.

So she's out of the house at 6am and not back until 8pm?
Sounds normal, even for minimum wage jobs. She should be glad that she's not doing long hours for rubbish pay.
Does she have weekends to herself?

Even SIL had the cheek over Christmas to tell me she was so tired that she had slept til mid day during her leave. Pffffft! I can’t wait til she has kids and has a big (5am) wake up call after working late the night before hmm

It’s not a bloody competition!!!! You’re just as bad if not worse! Get over yourself, bloody hell. Other people are allowed to be tired - surprise surprise!

Those hours do go with the job plus I expect she’ll be logging on at home & working then as well.

She’s allowed to be tired by it - anyone would. It does sound though that it’s the rest of the family complaining about it rather than her which might well be rooted in her not spending as much time with them as before

My DH (and now DC) work in the city. They earn a lot of money but they are expected to be available to clients 24/7. As a lot of those clients live in different time zones that necessitates long hours. A lot of those clients also live in non-Christian countries with different public holidays to us so DH often has to work Christmas/Easter too. I have to admit it has pissed me off on many occasions when DH’s work has disrupted family events and holidays but he loves his job and I like the financial benefits it brings so on balance it’s worth it.

We always slept in until midday on a Saturday before we had kids! That's normal if you work hard all week and have no kids surely! Can only dream of that now.

It’s not a bloody competition!!!!

I agree with this. To think otherwise sets yourself up for the same comparison...

Think working 50 hour weeks for £20k and raising two children is tough? I've known people working 70 hour weeks for pennies and raising their five children, plus thier brothers four children, plus taking care of elderly relatives. You end up like that bloody Monty Python sketch.

It's quite possible to love a high hour job AND find it exhausting.

It's possible to feel like you are compelled to do a high £ job just because you've been offered it - only to then go through painful months of realisation that it is much harder than you thought it would be.

It's quite possible to have a full blown breakdown whilst earning £150k a year.

It's not normal in the country I live in because the unions would cause almighty hell for companies expecting people to work that long. And rightly so. I agree with PP who says it's only normal because we have allowed it to be so. If a job is 9-5 then it should be just that, regardless of salary. Work/life balance is so important.

That said, it'll be very hard to break the expectation in the UK because it IS so widely accepted as normal.

I suppose it’s just about having a little bit of empathy. Something the OP clearly lacks. Sounds tiring for your SIL, whether or not you think the detail of her situation should make her tired is not particularly important. Fact is, she is

Normal.
We juggle in our house as both have similar issues but I have stepped back somewhat to be the more “at home” person for DD (but know I’m extremely lucky that DH is also very hands on and, while he has more travel to organise than I do, has somewhat more flexibility when he’s here and will use it to organise dd).

Baby and toddler years were actually nearly the easiest, as she commutes with us and had Creche/Montessori near our offices.

Primary had lots of interesting challenges and we’re seeing some similar and some very different ones now she’s in secondary.

Can SIL do any work at home or on her commute? It’s great for clearing emails while sitting on the train, or reading docs that will need to be digested. Or for otherwise organising life - doing online supermarket shopping for delivery, setting up appointments and planning diary.

Or else just doing something to relax. Read a book. Listen to a podcast or good music. Download episodes of the show you keep missing to watch. Knitting and crochet work ok (but sewing is a bit harder).

And if she’s on massive money, learnt o outsource. Get the cleaners in. Find a gym or trainer near the office to go to at lunchtime or early morning. Find places to do dry cleaning etc on the commute route. Figure out what food she likes and how to make that easier (batch cooking and freezing, getting “Cook” or other boxes delivered with everything included, buying ingredients already prepped or good quality conveniences). But keep a relatively healthy diet at the same time to keep up energy. Snacks for commuting time (dried fruit and nuts are great) or in the desk drawer.

That’s pretty good for that pay actually. It just seems like a long day because of her commute but she’s actually working something like 7-7. 12 days is not a long day in many professions especially in London.

Yes, it goes with the territory. What she does have, though, is the luxury of choice. She can choose to step down and earn less.

well it is customary in many companies/industries yes. It's quite possible to earn 150K+ in a 9-5 job though, so not a must.

I know a few very high earners. They work ridiculously long hours and never really see their families even the ones with older dc. They spend the whole weekend constantly stressed and cannot seem to wind down ever.

Oh sorry I misread, its 6 to 8. But 45 minutes each way for the commute doesnt count in the working day so more like 7 to 7

At that age and no children, she should focus on building up her savings, so when she does have kids (if) she can either keep up the job or have enough money to step down and tone down.

I am not pursuing a career but have a job because i like to be able to leave at 4h30/5 for school pick up - but i do start at 8 as DH does drop offs... but I am not earning as much as i could because of that

well it is customary in many companies/industries yes. It's quite possible to earn 150K+ in a 9-5 job though, so not a must.

What jobs?

Yes, DS commutes and probably works 60 - 70 hours a week, and he has barely had a night’s undisturbed sleep for 2 years, due to DGD! Week before Xmas, he was working 9.30 am - 2 am.

I’d say entirely normal and what did your SIL expect?

Normal for some, not others. I am in the office at 8.30- 6 two- three days a week, working two- three days from home. Commute is about 90 mins each way on office days. I switch off all my devices at 6.30pm generally. I don't normally take a long lunch break but only because I find it hard to get going again after a break. So I guess I have it easy.

Hm, I'd say this is mostly the case (+the culture of presenteism), my DH though is the lucky one. High earner, IT, no extra hours

It's ok to feel exhausted, though, even if you chose it yourself..

It is pretty normal but it is also about how you organise your life and whether you enjoy your job.
When I'm doing something amazing at work I don't care what my hours are, even if I have to work all night. Obviously it isn't always like that, but IMO no one could work in a job like that long term without suffering adverse effects if they didn't like what they were doing a fair amount of the time.
And tbh if I was 29 with no kids and earning that sort of money no way would I be living what must be an hour's commute from the office. Thats 2 hours a day wasted on something that is both tiring and generally unproductive. She and her husband should move for a better commute (preferably where a taxi is an easy alternative if the trains are knackered) if this is going to be her life.

Pffffft! I can’t wait til she has kids and has a big (5am) wake up call after working late the night before
You seem to be really fond of your SIL, aren't you?
The reality is that she most likely won't be able to continue as before once she has kids, unless your DB becomes a stay-at-home dad (you know, destroying his own financial security in case if their marriage is not bomb proof).
Or she will continue to have sleepless nights with the children followed by 14 intense hours in the office (because obviously it is HER who will get up at 5am, not your DB) but will burn out in a year and your nieces and nephews will be exposed to mental health issues day in day out. Been there, done that, opted for a 70% drop in salary instead of continuing.
But you simply can't wait for it to happen.

Of course she is allowed to be tired. Yes it's a choice but so is having children and you are allowed to say you are tired with them.