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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Is this teacher being unreasonable?

306 replies

OhHolyJesus · 16/01/2020 22:46

3rd time lucky, genuinely not being goady, I'm seriously concerned reading this teacher's account and I want to share so others can be aware and see how it is from a teacher's perspective.

This is from Safe Schools Alliance:

I am utterly horrified at what was taught at a PSHE lesson at my school recently. It was to a group of children, most are 11-12 years old. It is so, so much worse than I thought.
The topic was LGBT and Diversity. The kids were taught that biological sex is your anatomy (genitals etc), however, male, female and intersex are genders and are on a spectrum. They were told that people can identify however they want -- as male or female. Some people identify as neither; some identify as non-binary. The teachers spoke about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. They explained a lesbian is attracted to ‘other women’, but it was clear that if anyone can identify as a woman then ‘other women’ may actually be men. ‘Cisgender’ was also mentioned and the kids were told that ‘a cisgender person is someone who identifies with the sex they were assigned at birth’. Sex and gender were conflated throughout the lesson and sometimes they were used as synonyms. The kids went home thinking God knows what.
The kids were also told briefly about bestiality, sex toys and masturbation. I really, truly wish that I was kidding. I don’t know who brought up bestiality but the teachers should have shut this down immediately and explained that it is inappropriate, not to mention illegal in the UK. Nothing of the sort. One of the teachers said it was a sexuality whereby some people are attracted to and have sex with animals. It was talked about like it is completely normal. The other things that were taught, were sex toys and masturbation. The kids were told about how people “pleasure themselves”, that some women use a vibrator and some men masturbate to pornography.
I feel disgusted and disheartened. I feel a lesson like that should be reported to the headteacher and the governors but I don’t think it will be dealt with appropriately. The school has form for not taking safeguarding seriously. I feel like I’m going mad and I’m wrong. I know I’m not, but it feels like it. I hope that the parents will say something. They must. Some of the boys [in our school] act a lot older than their age. They are always making inappropriate sexual comments or asking inappropriate sexual questions. I suspect some are also watching pornography online. A couple are obsessed with murder, rape [of girls], suicide and corporal punishment. The sort of PSHE lesson I witnessed will do nothing to challenge their unhealthy attitudes to sex, relationships and women.
We also have a student who is transgender. A girl who identifies as a boy. We were told to use male pronouns to use for her. There was no discussion. I don’t think this is in [the student’s] best interests but I felt unable to say anything. A teacher was reprimanded by a colleague for using ‘she’ for this girl. I [have been] forced to lie to a student. She used ‘she’ for the [transboy] and was told off by a teacher. I am being forced to actively lie. I feel that I cannot safeguard my students effectively. I am worried and scared for the kids-- especially our girls – what they’re being told and being forced to use mixed-sex toilets. At this point, I think that the only thing that will stop all this madness is some poor young girl being harmed. The local council is in meltdown. [We] have sent them two letters. They haven’t responded to the second one but from the response to the first one they don’t see any safeguarding issues. Ofsted and the DfE are on board the trans train. The DfE is funding Mermaids. Who are teachers supposed to turn to?
Teacher, 32, England

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 19/01/2020 09:36

Exactly Karen this is why I'm asking posters what they would be comfortable with in thy r classroom, what does 'being taught' mean?

Discussions
Videos
Diagrams
Reading

I certainly don't expect a love demonstration of masturbation from a teacher and that is not happening - but where are the lines drawn? What are parents comfortable with? This will vary but overall aren't the lesson plans in-line wit the majority view of parents?

(In Warwickshire it would appear not, but I wouldn't want my 13 year old learning about eating someone's shit either, as part of a sex ed class or in home ec, it's unbelievable that it got that far but indeed it did. Which is why I think parents should check! )

OP posts:
SaphfireRose · 19/01/2020 09:36

OP, then I stand corrected. I have just seen too many religious people attacking transgender people.

Safe Schools Alliance clearly state that they have no religious or political affiliation. Their only interest is the safeguarding of children.

Of course it states that. Maybe they have no actual religious or political affiliation, but it's obvious they are coming from a conservative and/or Christian agenda, using 'safeguarding children' as a cover. I don't believe it. They are transphobic.

OhHolyJesus · 19/01/2020 09:39

Saphfire of course you are entitled to your opinion, I hope it based on something real. I don't see anything of the sort, I think the work they did with Click Off was incredible and has protected children from the respect yourself programme.

If Click Off crushing freedom of expression as it encourages people to stop using porn?

Of course we each need to make up our own minds so as previously posted, their website is:

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/about/

OP posts:
Datun · 19/01/2020 09:43

Datun I never said they were affiliated with a religious group, so it's not me being defamatory.

She did. You actually said they are a Christian blog, masquerading as child safety.

They are in the process of taking Oxfordshire county council to court over the use of the trans-tools kit for children. They have been interviewed by BBC radio, about the current LGBT guidance for schools.

All this is verifiable.

Why do you think they are a religious group, who are masquerading as child safeguarding activists?

Datun · 19/01/2020 09:43

*You did

SaphfireRose · 19/01/2020 09:54

No, I did not. I said I believe they are a far right/Christian (either/or) blog and using safety of children as a cover.

OhHolyJesus · 19/01/2020 09:56

Datun did you just misgender? Wink

For the record, before anyone jumps on me with accusations of being anti-religion or anti-Jesus, my username is a piss-take...of myself. These are the three words I said before I said yes and accepted my husband's proposal.

SSA are supporting a 13 year old girl and her mother in their court case against Oxfordshire County Council. I support that 13 year old girl. I think she is very brave, I know I couldn't do what she is doing at 13. I'll back anyone who supports a 13 year old in her hopes of protecting her privacy and dignity at school. Facing this at 13? She needs all the help she can get.

OP posts:
SaphfireRose · 19/01/2020 09:56

Sorry, I forgot this.
They are in the process of taking Oxfordshire county council to court over the use of the trans-tools kit for children. They have been interviewed by BBC radio, about the current LGBT guidance for schools.

Because they are taking the council to court, that means they are telling the truth? Do you realise how many people or organisations take other people or organisations to court? It doesn't mean they are right or that it won't be thrown out of court. Taking someone to court doesn't mean you necessarily have a case. If they win, I may review my opinion.

OhHolyJesus · 19/01/2020 09:59

Cases do have to meet a threshold before they go to court though. Even employment tribunals.

OP posts:
SaphfireRose · 19/01/2020 10:00

Many far right groups and Christian groups support children taking schools to court. It doesn't mean anything. I am sure there have been transgender 13 year olds who have taken (or thought about it) schools to court for not allowing them to access their preferred gender toilet. Just because a 13 year old takes a school to court (probably pressured by parents) does not mean they are right to do so. Brave maybe. Or maybe brainwashed/pressurised? And yes that can go for both sides.

karencantobe · 19/01/2020 10:01

I am happy for teachers to answer questions kids raise. In terms of actual teaching I think kids should be taught about heterosexual penetrative sex, anal sex and that some gay men have it bit not all, safe sex, masturbation, puberty, oral sex. So of course not diagrams about how to masturbate. But what it is and that it is normal.

SaphfireRose · 19/01/2020 10:04

I am not adverse to protecting women's spaces, however I disbelieve a lot of the stuff that is said to have been taught, and I think it is 'anonymous' people causing trouble. Having read that SafeSchoolsAlliance UK site, I see a lot of transphobia and I think they use child safety as a convenient cloak. Of course there is a chance I could be wrong, but from experience, I genuinely don't believe I am. I have an automatic distrust of any group who bangs on about child safety, while having an anti-transgender agenda.

SaphfireRose · 19/01/2020 10:06

I am happy for teachers to answer questions kids raise. In terms of actual teaching I think kids should be taught about heterosexual penetrative sex, anal sex and that some gay men have it bit not all, safe sex, masturbation, puberty, oral sex.
I am the same way, karencantobe.

OhHolyJesus · 19/01/2020 10:10

The anonymity in this case is to protect the teacher and the children that the teacher, teaches.

How would these things be taught Karen? In discussion form?

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 19/01/2020 10:11

And also what she would you be happy with this to be taught, from 11 up?

That's to Saphfire and Karen

OP posts:
Datun · 19/01/2020 10:22

I see a lot of transphobia and I think they use child safety as a convenient cloak.

Okay. So first of all they were a religious blog, then masqueraders as child safety activists, then outright liars, and now transphobic.

Can you point to what they have said that is transphobic? That might be more helpful.

SaphfireRose · 19/01/2020 10:27

OP, yes, I would be happy with it being 11 and up.

SaphfireRose · 19/01/2020 10:30

@Datun For the second time, I didn't say they definitely were a religious blog. And why you think it is impossible for a group to be "then masqueraders as child safety activists, then outright liars, and now transphobic" at the same time, I don't know.

Just read their site. They are about restricting trans freedom.

Datun · 19/01/2020 10:33

Of course it's possible, but you have no evidence that SSA is.

What does restricting trans freedom mean?

SaphfireRose · 19/01/2020 10:33

Even on their about page, you can see they are obsessed with gender identity:"and We are concerned that schools are being advised to use policies regarding gender identity that are based on misleading or inaccurate information.

We fear that many of these policies have not been subject to proper impact assessment and may cause conflict between protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010. For example, although Equality Act exemptions allow for single-sex provision to achieve a legitimate aim (such as keeping female students safe in light of alarming sexual harassment statistics reported in the recent NEU & UK Feminista’s study on sexism in schools), trans lobby groups push policies which allow males into female spaces, including in schools."

Typical anti-trans speak.

SarahTancredi · 19/01/2020 10:35

Do you think upholding single sex spaces in schools to maintain privacy and dignity and safety is anti trans?

Datun · 19/01/2020 10:35

saphfire

This might give you some insight/background to SSA and what they are campaigning about.

Marcus Evans was on the board of governors at the Tavistock gender clinic. He has lately resigned over fears for the children being treated. As have, I believe, a fifth of their staff.

He is, quite clearly, very compassionate towards children who identify as the opposite sex. It's obvious from what he writes. But he has concerns. It's a good read, and very informative.

quillette.com/2020/01/17/why-i-resigned-from-tavistock-trans-identified-children-need-therapy-not-just-affirmation-and-drugs/

Datun · 19/01/2020 10:37

Typical anti-trans speak.

In what way is it anti-trans? Are you actually saying that girls wanting a single sex space is anti trans? By definition?

SaphfireRose · 19/01/2020 10:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Datun · 19/01/2020 10:42

Yes Saphfire, they are gender critical women. Like other gender critical women.

But is it possible to reply to my question? Do you think women and girls do not have the right to a single sex space?

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