AIBU with regard to giving lifts...

[Whiskeychaser]

Hi, sorry this is so long but I don't want to drip feed.

My dd and her friend, both 14 years olds, go to a club every Friday after school. My dd decided to attend this club and after about 6 weeks her friend wanted to try it out, but because her mum doesn't drive, and because it's quite far away, (about 1hr 30min walking through some not great areas) the only way she can really attend is if I drive her.

I was happy to do this as I'm taking my dd anyway, they're friends and it's a nice thing to do and so I have been doing this for almost 2 years now.

I am friends with the mum too, although we don't see that much of each other anymore as she changed jobs a year ago, and now works much longer hours.

Unfortunately, Friday has become a really busy day for me over the last year, as although I'm a sahm, I have many commitments on my time, and Friday is one that is fixed, and I can't get out of, so I'm generally not home until 5pm.

Club is 18-25 mins away by car due to traffic at that time, and club starts at 6.30pm and goes on until 8pm.

We would need to leave from my house at 6pm in order to allow enough time for the traffic jams we usually encounter.

They live about 1.5 mile away by car, but in the opposite driving direction to the club.
Walking distance is much less though as there is a short cut they can use, which would take them less than 10 minutes, and even the long way around (0.8 miles) would only take them 15 minutes according to Google.

Due to traffic at that time it's a 15 minute detour to pick them up from their house, so this means I have to leave my house at 5.45pm at the latest in order to have enough time to drive to the club.

I'm finding it increasingly stressful to get dinner, etc, sorted within the 30-40 minute time frame this realistically leaves me.

As a consequence, I'm often running a bit late leaving my house, so I may be a maximum of 10 minutes late picking them up, which leaves me even more stressed and rushing to get to the club on time, as I prefer to be there 5 minutes early.

For example, two weeks ago I picked them up (mum came that week) 10 minutes late and parked up at the club dead on 6pm, which realistically meant they were 2-3 minutes late for it by the time they entered the hall.

Over the last 2 years they've only been actually late to class a maximum of 4 times (twice in the last 12 months), but the stress I'm feeling rushing around, or cutting my stuff short in order to not be late for them is really getting to me.

I would say I'm late picking her/them up probably 4 out of every 6 times.

This varies from being a minute late picking them up to a maximum of 10 minutes late and probably averages 4 minutes, and although this only rarely results in them being late for the actual club, it stresses me out nevertheless.

If I'm not outside their house by 5.45pm, I immediately start getting texts asking where I am, which I obviously can't answer as I'm driving, and anyway stopping to reply would just make me even later! Hearing the texts pinging also stresses me out even more.

Seven or eight times over the summer, she walked up to us for short before 6pm, so that we could leave my house at 6pm and I found that so much less stressful.
I know it doesn't sound like much but that extra 15 minutes made all the difference for me. I was much less stressed and we always got there 5 minutes early every time.

Since the weather has got colder and darker, I've been picking her up from her house, and it's just not working for me, and I feel really guilty when I'm picking them up late, so I thought I'd take a leaf out of the MNer book and let them know I was having a problem. I really didn't expect there to be an issue.

In the spirit of this, I sent the mum a text yesterday afternoon and asked her to get her dd to walk up to ours for 5pm on Friday (thinking about when it gets dark), instead of me driving to get her for 5.45pm.

My dd got a text back from the dd almost immediately saying: it's fine they'd rather wait for me to pick them up as it gives them more time at home, and that they'd see me then (turns out mum is coming along too).

I then texted the mum back again saying that that didn't suit me, being late is stressing me out and I'd rather she/they walked here as I also need that extra time myself.
Mum texted me again and said she's coming on Friday too so we can catch up, but that she really doesn't want to walk to me as it is 'miserable weather' outside now, and she prefers to leave home as late as possible.
I texted back and said they didn't need to be here until 6pm then, but that I would like them to come to me in future, as it makes my life easier.

I had no reply to that text, which I sent around 8pm yesterday, until this morning when I had a text saying: 'it's not on, it's really cold and wet now and it will be dark, I'm driving anyway so it makes no difference to me, and is much easier for me, but will put them out, and so I should just pick them up as usual'.

I really don't want to fall out with the mum or cause issues for my dd, as the dd can be quite moody, but I'm pretty hurt that the mum can't see it from my point of view, especially considering I've never before asked for anything in return.

I know the mum works really long hours, and I know she worries about her dd walking in the dark, (even though she's allowed to go out in the dark at other times), but at the end of the day I'm doing them both a favour, and I've never asked for any contribution or anything in return (& wouldn't as I'm going there anyway). Even when the mum comes we take it in turns to buy a coffee, and I wouldn't expect her to pay for mine anyway (that's not why I'm helping them out).
I'm doing it because they're/we're friends, it helps them and is a nice thing to do plus we're going there anyway.

I also always drop them off at their house; I just wanted that bit of breathing space before the club.

AIBU to have asked them to come to me, and how do I handle it now?

I know what I want to say, which isn't printable, but I don't want to say something I'll later regret, and I really don't want to fall out over this, but I also don't want to be a doormat (my New Year's resolution is to be less of a people pleaser).

I've always been a people pleaser and hate saying no, so now I'm wondering if it was petty of me to expect them to come to me.

Maybe I'm just as bad and it's me being stubborn by not backing down?? Who knows!!

Every reasonable person in the universe knows OP.

Your friend owed you an acknowledgement (an apology for last Friday's pass-agg manoeuvre would have been ideal, but too much for a CF) for your help over the past 2 years.
Instead she has chosen to rant about it - iirc - being "not on" & now she is showing you that not only is she not grateful for your continued help, she won't be satisfied until you lie across her front door with "WELCOME" stamped on your back.

What an ungracious, unwomanly person.
Hold fast, you are NOT in the wrong here.

This is the beginning of an extinction burst, where the behaviour will get worse and worse and even worse until either they give up and be civilised or you have been worn down and give in,

Become a broken record. Say nothing other than

" if she needs a lift she must be here before 6 pm"

end of

Give them time to accept this new boundary. Don't get drawn into 'debates and shite'

be kind. Be polite but stick to the If she needs ....

((((Hugs))) you can do this.🍷💐🖖🖖🍩🍫🧁🍨

take some time to treat yourself to a quiet moment of peace and something yummy. And

Breathe. You can do this.🌸🌼🌺

I've spoken to her and she said that my request was reasonable, and understands why I won't be backing down, and thinks they're being ridiculous.

She also likes my suggestion of saying "dunno what's going on. Get your mum to speak to mine".

She does struggle with being assertive, it's actually something we've been working in together, and I've been really proud of her this past year as she's been doing really well in asserting her boundaries with my help/advice, so I really need to practice what I preach.

Why is it always easier to give others advice, lol?

The fact they've now (possibly) gone through my dd has really pissed me off though.

How dare they!

Especially as they know she would struggle a bit going on her own, although part of the reason she's not really made new friends is because of the other dd being there all the time and monopolising her.

My dd doesn't really want to feel like she has to have this girl at our house all afternoon every Friday due to previous boundary problems and doesn't want to be committed to every week (short school day), which is why she doesn't want to offer this girl walking home with us straight from school every Friday.

I really like what @TwistedAnkle suggested, although atm I can't get past "you can fuck right off then, you entitled cow!"

Need to think carefully overnight, and will check in with my dd in the morning about how she wants me to handle it, and will probably show her the text before I send it so she's not blindsided at school again.

I might even end up just ignoring it, or having it out with her in person... that's if I can dial down the rage from a 100/100 to something that won't have me doing time!

Just know whiskey that you have done nothing wrong here.

This is the mother and daughter taking it up a notch in the hope that you will back down. It sounds like the mother is being stubborn and doesn't care that it is her dd that will lose out in the long run.

You have been a good friend to this lady for 2 years which she is chosing to forget right now as it doesn't suit her. She really can't see the wood for the trees. Stay strong

"my mum's coming too and doesn't see why she should have to walk as she's been working hard all week".

Oh so THAT's the next nasty little attack waiting in the wings.
OP is now not only responsible for eternal lift-giving, she's responsible for 'friend' going to work.

OP - please keep PP's admirable notion from upthread in mind -
how is it that it's OK for YOU to go 15 minutes out of your way, but not OK for friend's DD to go just 7?

Having read your DDs update, I think you should just text, this.
Thanks for the message.
DD was take back and upset by the conversation at school.
Due to bad feelings misunderstandings and such, I think this is a good time to call quits on the lifts.
Please be aware should you attend the club, you will need to make your own way home.

I just read your first post OP and the difference in you in a week is quite phenomenal. This woman probably thinks you are a pushover but in fact you have gotten stronger and more pissed off with her in just a week. She is probably sitting at home baffled and wondering how she has not got around you yet. keep it up and not just for this wagon but for you.

I just can't believe it's come to this, especially over something that was so easy for them to do.

I wasn't asking for money, I wasn't asking her to take turns, I wasn't asking for something outlandish, I wasn't asking for any kind of contribution at all, just some consideration, but it appears as though that's too much to ask!

Cornishclio, I don't buy her drinks, we take it in turns to pay and I'm fine with that. Also, to be fair to her, I've not taken in any parcels since late October/early November.

I just can't believe that she's behaving like this when she knows I'm meant to be looking after her dog for her in March.
Does she really think I'll still be happy to do this, if she behaves like this over the lifts?

Sadly though, I think you're all bang on point, and if she doesn't turn up at mine on Friday, or this continues tomorrow, I do feel it's already too late to salvage any kind of friendship.

It's my dd I feel for (& hers), as I personally would never put them in this position, especially just to make a point!

From your last update it sounds as though your dd would benefit from attending the club alone. She may find the first few weeks harder but could flourish once she’s made a few new friends.

Your friends attitude shows a staggering level of entitlement and you have been exceptionally generous and tolerant up to now. I’d be inclined to end all lifts going forward and have their numbers blocked on both yours and dd’s phones.

Thanks, cstaff, messolini9 and others.

It does help to hear that you don't think I'm being a bitch over this. I'm just dumbfounded by the escalation, and you're correct in thinking that I've become more angry over it as time's gone on; especially how it's now been aimed at my dd's Achilles heel (going alone).

She had started making friends when she first went by herself, but with the other dd going along, that kind of went by the wayside as the dd always insisted on being with my dd (in groups/pairs, etc) so she's not really been able to develop these friendships much further.

I'm really seeing that she obviously doesn't see the friendship in the same way as me, otherwise why wouldn't you want to help make a friend's life easier? Especially one that's been making your life easier for several years already.

I just don't understand her mindset, and that annoys me too, lol.

Dog sitting Ehh. Get ready for the dog to Neeeeed to be sat by you and only you for whatever reason .......🙄

You are not a bitch. She is. And if I were you I'd retract the offer for any ride from now on and watch her did blast her mum. Fuck her. You have been so kind, not sure what gutters these CFs were brought up in.

I would start hinting now that she will have to make other arrangements for her dog in March.

She is saving a lot of money thanks to your kindness, isn't she?

I just don't understand her mindset,

This year I have made the resolution of accepting that I don't and won't always understand other's mindset and/or motivation.

I have previously tied myself up in knots, reliving and rehashing situations and conversations. You know what? It won't change anything.

If you were trying to figure out the mindset of someone who appeared reasonable and you genuinely thought you were not seeing the full picture, then absolutely analyse things. But in this situation you know you are being reasonable. You know that you are being manipulated and now your DD's friend's mum is literally using bullying tactics to both to you and your daugher and that is never ok. You have to show your daughter that you are strong enough to stick to your word.

Be prepared too for the other mum and/or her daughter to say that they will walk and do so for a week or two before the mother is not well enough to walk etc and the previous arrangement resumes. They may well try to guilt you into doing what the other mum wants as in my experience, people like this ie manipulative people, will try everything to get their own way.

It really would be far better to cut your ties with any form of lift giving from now on and also not be available to take in parcels. I don't have many friends either and have always tried to retain the few I have, but friends are supposed to make you feel happy and worthwhile and if they are doing the opposite, then it is time to accept the friendship status has changed.

maths She probably is, but that's never been how I've measured friendship.

I don't really have lots of friends as I've moved around a lot and lost touch with those from school, etc, , and I have previously placed more value on my friendships than others do.

It has felt (in the past) that as soon as I assert my needs/wants, and I'm not running around after them anymore, that they then feel the friendship with me isn't worth any more of their time.

I didn't really want my dc to have me as a role model wrt friendships (doormat), so I generally keep to myself, although I'm still always happy to help others.
That's probably why the friends I do have, I've met through my dc.

I've always been the one to drive the dc & their friends places and have them over to mine for dinner/sleepovers, etc.
I love having a full house, and I love baking and playing cards, etc, with them & their friends, etc.

I'm generally easy going, so I think people then become complacent and expect me to just go with the flow and so react badly when I don't behave how they expect me to. In that way, I've brought this on myself, I guess.

As you can probably tell, I'll now be up all night second guessing myself and worrying about it all, and the effect on/fallout for my dd.

Oh dear, OP. I had thought that maybe the stress at work had meant that your "friend" wasn't thinking straight, but no.

Your request was more than reasonable.

I don't have a car and never ask for or expect lifts.

The thing with your approach to friendships, OP, is that the people who need/want stuff doing will gravitate to you because you do the stuff they want/need. This leaves you with less time/attention focused on people who are treating you equally - you see the person you are helping a lot as a friend and give them your time and attention rather than investing your effort in other, possibly shallower seeming to you (because they don't ask you for things), friendships that are more equal. So you will tend to end up with users as friends. Then, when you assert yourself to equalize the friendship most of them will no longer find you as useful and will move on to find some one else who will do stuff for them.

Does that seem like it might apply?

You read the last sentence of your last post - even if you think the above does apply, don't think on it all night. It doesn't mean you've caused them to be users. They would chance it with anyone. It may give you a way to find some other friendships that end up being less about what others can get from you, though. But it doesn't have to be something you stress about.

*"I've just read" not "You read" - sorry, long day.

OP your analysis of your personality sounds like me when my kids were small; I was the mum who always had a house full of other people's kids, and I was the one who ran them anywhere they wanted to go.

Eventually I realised they were all taking me for a mug. Every other mum had a lovely child-free Saturday afternoon while I spent it running around after their little darlings!

When I started refusing to give lifts my DDs "friends" dropped her like a hot potato. And their mums who I had thought were my friends, did the same to me. With some snide remarks.

But we live & learn. BoomBoomsCousin has it exactly right.

I wouldn't do any more messaging unless she contacts you, you've said your piece.

Oh and this is a good lesson for your DD in recognising the difference between users and true friends.

Your updates have removed any benefit of the doubt for CF & she isn't your "friend" unfortunately. Unless she eats a massive slice of humble pie, your relationship is not going to be saved (unless you lay back down like a good little doormat - even then you'd prob get a guilt trip about "How extra stressful this club lifts drama has made my life" ). She's now playing the " I'm a single mum, working so hard & doing it so tough in life, I'm doing if so tough financially, poor me" card for a guilt trip. I was baffled that she didn't offer fuel money or to buy your coffee each week from the get go, in thank you.

Your daughter needs to keep with the "I dont know, get your mum to talk to my mum" to the DD.
Then when CF Mum msgs you, just re-iterate your position -
"As per my texts last week, I am still able to take your daughter in my car to Club with (Whiskeys daughter), however from now on she must be at our house at 5.55pm ready for 6pm departure. The previous arrangement of me picking (CF's DD) up from your house no longer works for my other scheduled commitments on Fridays. "

If you want, you could add something like

"I am sure that you appreciate the benefit and convenience of lifts for [CF's daughter] to Club in my car of the past 2 years, in you not having to pay for fuelor other car expenses, or taxi fees to & from the Club, and I am happy to continue with those lifts on the above basis (ie. [CF's daughter] to be at our house ready for 6pm departure to Club each Friday)."

Or perhaps

"If [CF's DD] intends to continue with Club and would like to keep getting lifts with me and [Whiskey Daughter] on the above basis (ie. 6pm departure from ourhouse straight to Club), then a contribution towards the fuel costs etc for my car expenses for Club trips every Friday would be appreciated."

I only suggest adding one of these as for any normal person, that would be a bit of a smack round the head to stop & think, realise what a favour you've beendoing, and offer up at least a thank you, if not a bunch of flowers, an apology for being a CF and some money for fuel - But as she's a CF, she'll prob justify no contribution by "you are going there anyway".

If you get a CF reply again (eg. "Poor DD won't be able to go to club now if you don't give her lifts!"), reply like "That would be a shame, I can still giveher a lift as per arrangements above, otherwise I hope you are able to make alternate arrangements".

You need to stand firm and let the fall out happen. Keep your daughter in the loop.
Given how you've described the other daughter's relationship (v. unhealthy! - if that was a boyfriend it'd be red flags everywhere!), some time away and cooling or end of their friendship would allow time and space for your own daughters growth and develop friendships with others. Doesn't sound like you'll be missing out on much from loss of CF's "friendship" either.

It's the equivalent as the club being at your house. If the location was there would she expect a lift from you to get there or would she walk there like a normal person?!

I'm trying to think of a way to handle it where she'll see how idiotic/stubborn/shortsighted she's being before she stops her dd doing something she enjoys

That's not your job. And from what you've said it might be better for your girl if the daughter does stop going.

Tell your daughter to have a response ready "I don't know, I'm not the one driving. Tell your mam to ring my mam". And repeat as often as is necessary if the other girl keeps going on about it.

The mother could pay for a taxi as far as your house if she wanted. And now it is staying bright until around 5:30 so if the girl was there by then she'd be fine.

But.. None of that is your problem to solve. She thinks you and your daughter cannot survive without them. Keep repeating the mantra to yourself "You need me, I don't need you".

Honestly OP, I wouldn't send any text.

Your DD answer of "I dunno, that's Mum's stuff " is perfect.

Your DD is not getting as much from this club because of this child's dominant nature.
Your DD doesn't want her over too much.

I think this could be a very good time to back away.

You are never going to convince this woman she is wrong.

She is a user.
She is a CF.

You must try and accept that is the reality.

Both mother and daughter are totally focused on their wants.

Getting into an argument by text or phone will solve nothing IMO.

Last week you made things extremely plain to them about your pressures and the change to the arrangement.

There is no need to get into it again.

Focus on your DD and prepping her her for "I dunno, that's Mum stuff".

I think @BoomBoomsCousin
explains very clearly the dynamic.

Users are not friends, they never are.

This woman is as bully an her DD has issues too with respecting other people.
Not really people that you should depend on for friendship.

Wishing you the very best OP, you sound like such a nice woman.

But you can't win with users, you just cut them off IMO.

💐