AIBU with regard to giving lifts...

[Whiskeychaser]

Hi, sorry this is so long but I don't want to drip feed.

My dd and her friend, both 14 years olds, go to a club every Friday after school. My dd decided to attend this club and after about 6 weeks her friend wanted to try it out, but because her mum doesn't drive, and because it's quite far away, (about 1hr 30min walking through some not great areas) the only way she can really attend is if I drive her.

I was happy to do this as I'm taking my dd anyway, they're friends and it's a nice thing to do and so I have been doing this for almost 2 years now.

I am friends with the mum too, although we don't see that much of each other anymore as she changed jobs a year ago, and now works much longer hours.

Unfortunately, Friday has become a really busy day for me over the last year, as although I'm a sahm, I have many commitments on my time, and Friday is one that is fixed, and I can't get out of, so I'm generally not home until 5pm.

Club is 18-25 mins away by car due to traffic at that time, and club starts at 6.30pm and goes on until 8pm.

We would need to leave from my house at 6pm in order to allow enough time for the traffic jams we usually encounter.

They live about 1.5 mile away by car, but in the opposite driving direction to the club.
Walking distance is much less though as there is a short cut they can use, which would take them less than 10 minutes, and even the long way around (0.8 miles) would only take them 15 minutes according to Google.

Due to traffic at that time it's a 15 minute detour to pick them up from their house, so this means I have to leave my house at 5.45pm at the latest in order to have enough time to drive to the club.

I'm finding it increasingly stressful to get dinner, etc, sorted within the 30-40 minute time frame this realistically leaves me.

As a consequence, I'm often running a bit late leaving my house, so I may be a maximum of 10 minutes late picking them up, which leaves me even more stressed and rushing to get to the club on time, as I prefer to be there 5 minutes early.

For example, two weeks ago I picked them up (mum came that week) 10 minutes late and parked up at the club dead on 6pm, which realistically meant they were 2-3 minutes late for it by the time they entered the hall.

Over the last 2 years they've only been actually late to class a maximum of 4 times (twice in the last 12 months), but the stress I'm feeling rushing around, or cutting my stuff short in order to not be late for them is really getting to me.

I would say I'm late picking her/them up probably 4 out of every 6 times.

This varies from being a minute late picking them up to a maximum of 10 minutes late and probably averages 4 minutes, and although this only rarely results in them being late for the actual club, it stresses me out nevertheless.

If I'm not outside their house by 5.45pm, I immediately start getting texts asking where I am, which I obviously can't answer as I'm driving, and anyway stopping to reply would just make me even later! Hearing the texts pinging also stresses me out even more.

Seven or eight times over the summer, she walked up to us for short before 6pm, so that we could leave my house at 6pm and I found that so much less stressful.
I know it doesn't sound like much but that extra 15 minutes made all the difference for me. I was much less stressed and we always got there 5 minutes early every time.

Since the weather has got colder and darker, I've been picking her up from her house, and it's just not working for me, and I feel really guilty when I'm picking them up late, so I thought I'd take a leaf out of the MNer book and let them know I was having a problem. I really didn't expect there to be an issue.

In the spirit of this, I sent the mum a text yesterday afternoon and asked her to get her dd to walk up to ours for 5pm on Friday (thinking about when it gets dark), instead of me driving to get her for 5.45pm.

My dd got a text back from the dd almost immediately saying: it's fine they'd rather wait for me to pick them up as it gives them more time at home, and that they'd see me then (turns out mum is coming along too).

I then texted the mum back again saying that that didn't suit me, being late is stressing me out and I'd rather she/they walked here as I also need that extra time myself.
Mum texted me again and said she's coming on Friday too so we can catch up, but that she really doesn't want to walk to me as it is 'miserable weather' outside now, and she prefers to leave home as late as possible.
I texted back and said they didn't need to be here until 6pm then, but that I would like them to come to me in future, as it makes my life easier.

I had no reply to that text, which I sent around 8pm yesterday, until this morning when I had a text saying: 'it's not on, it's really cold and wet now and it will be dark, I'm driving anyway so it makes no difference to me, and is much easier for me, but will put them out, and so I should just pick them up as usual'.

I really don't want to fall out with the mum or cause issues for my dd, as the dd can be quite moody, but I'm pretty hurt that the mum can't see it from my point of view, especially considering I've never before asked for anything in return.

I know the mum works really long hours, and I know she worries about her dd walking in the dark, (even though she's allowed to go out in the dark at other times), but at the end of the day I'm doing them both a favour, and I've never asked for any contribution or anything in return (& wouldn't as I'm going there anyway). Even when the mum comes we take it in turns to buy a coffee, and I wouldn't expect her to pay for mine anyway (that's not why I'm helping them out).
I'm doing it because they're/we're friends, it helps them and is a nice thing to do plus we're going there anyway.

I also always drop them off at their house; I just wanted that bit of breathing space before the club.

AIBU to have asked them to come to me, and how do I handle it now?

I know what I want to say, which isn't printable, but I don't want to say something I'll later regret, and I really don't want to fall out over this, but I also don't want to be a doormat (my New Year's resolution is to be less of a people pleaser).

I've always been a people pleaser and hate saying no, so now I'm wondering if it was petty of me to expect them to come to me.

OP I think you sound lovely. I would message her even though I think she’s took the piss and say
“Look this is silly, can we agree if the weather is ok your daughter will walk up if it’s torrential rain I’ll grab her”. I think you’re 100% in the right btw!
Also can’t believe she doesn’t buy your coffeeX x x

Could the friend cycle to yours?

It isn't Whiskey's job to find a suitable method of getting to her house. The DD is a teenager and she has an involved mother. They can work out how to get to Whiskey's house, they would just rather be picked up. It would be rude of Whiskey to start sending ideas like bikes or safety at night tips. The CFs aren't morons, they are just cheeky.

Exactly, Tork. The dd is allowed on the train by herself/to go into town alone, etc. It's not for me to micromanage her.

Some years ago I got into an arrangement with two other mums. We would take it in turns to take all our children to a club. It worked out fine for a few weeks, until they started coming up with different excuses why they couldn't take their turn to transport all the children, so I did it. Again and again, weekly!! The only way I eventually got out of was my friend said she would take my child. I apologised to the other parents and never took theres again. Ask a friend to take your daughter for you.

If the mum is going then walking to your house is fine. If something happened to that little girl while walking alone to your house, you would never forgive yourself. And don't stress about being late. It is not the end of the world.

Fuck right off with that. The teen's safety is NOT the OP's responsibility. The mother has plenty of other options to keep HER OWN daughter safe!

A CFer mum used to try and guilt me into picking her 1,2 or sometimes 3 kids up all the time using the "it's not safe to make them walk at night back from xxx club!" Like I would be responsible if anything happened to them. No. Those kids were obnoxious and rude. The mum was obnoxious and rude. I had no qualms about telling her it didn't work for me.i wasn't forcing anyone to attend that club.

Someone I hugely respect once told me "Never place conditions on someone doing you a favour, simply accept it or decline it, but never include requirements of the person going out of THEIR way to help you." If she doesn't want to accept a FREE LIFT EVERY WEEK, then I'd suggest she looks at the difficulty involved in the alternatives. She may consider that it's easy for you to 'just pick them up' but that places no value on your time, so on that basis alone I'd suggest you give her this ultimatum.

"The fact that you consider it easier for you for me to just 'pop round and collect your daughter' assumes that my time has no value and is just a usable commodity there for everyone else's benefit. I'm not willing for that to be the case, and remember that I have nothing to gain in this arrangement and simply sought to do you a favour. So, from now on your daughter can com to ours at 6, and if you are concerned about her walking in the dark, you could walk with her, and then come along or head home. With traffic it's just becoming too stressful for me to please everyone, so while I still want to offer [insert name here] and yourself an open invitation for a lift, I'm not able to do it on everyone else's terms. Just consider that you said you'd rather I picked you up as you don't want to leave any earlier than you have to, but in doing so I have to leave earlier to cover the driving time in both directions, and ultimately I'm the one doing the favour. I'm not looking to fall out with anyone, but I'm sure on reflection you'll see that I'm trying to be fair to all parties, and can still always pick you guys up as and when the good old British weather conspires against us."

We have a similar arrangement with the little girl next door, who goes to the same drama lessons as our girls. We give them all a lift as we have 2 to their 1 at the classes, and they have a DS2 with some medical complications and all the accompanying paraphernalia, whereas if I ever have to bring our DS6 he only needs a booster seat. We recently had a change of plans as our oldest started attending Girl Guides immediately afterwards. We asked if they minded us dropping their DD home about 15 mins later (I wanted to check as it was a school night) and their, rather blunt reply was "Your doing US a favour, what right would we have to make your evening more complicated for you. We'll stick with you dropping her home at whatever time you can, if that's still convenient for you, and we'll just say thanks." Which is, in reality, how it should be.

I have not read the whole thread so apologies if I missed any updates.

Don’t deal with this over text. You and your friend need to just have a chat. Explain the difficulties for you and offer to pick them up if it’s raining but when it’s not raining they need to get to you for 6pm. You are really kind but you are changing a long standing arrangement - do it in person or at least over the phone , not on text! That way you can both talk properly and reach a new agreement

You are the driver... so you call the shots. They either walk up or don't go. Simple really.

Shes not your friend
Shes using you.

If something happened to that little girl while walking alone to your house, you would never forgive yourself

The childs safety concern is the parents not a the OP! Crikey - that cannot be put at OP's door. No child would ever walk to or from anywhere if that was the case - we'd all be arranging to transport our own and neighbours kids to school, meet friends, or going to clubs.

You have done the right thing OP.

Am I the only person who thinks the OP didn’t handle this well by changing a long standing arrangement by text rather than phoning or speaking directly to the other mum ?

I think a text is much better. It doesn't leave any room for negotiation or misunderstanding as it is a written change of circumstances. The OP was very clear on the text that she could no longer pick the girl up from home in future. Also, a text is perfectly reasonable when she knows the other person might get pissy about it. It's far less confrontational I think.

If something happened to that little girl while walking alone to your house, you would never forgive yourself

Don't be ridiculous.
She's not a 'little girl' she is 14. Perfectly normal for a 14 yr old to be walking about to and from places. OP says she travels about by herself all the time.
If there were some other reason why she couldn't walk there herself then that is up to her Mum to make alternative arrangements (accompanying her or sending her that short distance in a taxi).

Am I the only person who thinks the OP didn’t handle this well by changing a long standing arrangement by text rather than phoning or speaking directly to the other mum?

Yes.

Although I can see it from your point of view, I can also see it from hers. Now normally I would definitely say you're not being unreasonable. But it's winter, it's freezing and probably stormy. You've not spoken to her face to face and just sent her a message, out of the blue expecting them to walk to yours for 15 minutes that's a long time when it's wet, they would be soaked getting to you. I think you need to speak to your friend about this, not in a message, but directly. Explain the circumstances. Does she know that Fridays are crazy busy for you and you don't get home til 5 or does she think you're home all day? Not that that should really matter, but for 2 years you've picked them up from the house and dropped them off. Now you're moving the goal posts, the night before you need to go?! Obviously situations change and your friend has to realise you are doing them a favour, but I do think you could have sorted this in a much better way.
I wouldn't do anymore texting, speak to her. If she's a friend she will understand, if not she's maybe not worth bothering with.
Also on a different note, crock pots are amazing, just bung it all in, in the morning come home, dish it up, saves loads of time and stress!

I think that people that do not drive do not realise what it costs to learn and then buy and maintain a car. They think its easier and just expect lifts and dont realise the extra time involved. I've even heard friends say they wouldn't dream of spending the money to learn but are happy to ask to be picked up and dropped off continuously for nothing. Extra time, extra petrol/diesel, wear and tear, but it's easy because you drive.

Angelsnapper, I had someone tell me how there's no way they would ever drive or get a car because it's just too expensive. Then goes on to expect lifts everywhere without offering a penny. Apparently it was okay if someone else was paying.

I also have a neighbour who's always wanting lifts here there and everywhere after her DF passed away and she was no longer driven around. At first I did it a little but it went from an occasional emergency to her just wanting to go to the shop (5 mins walk away). I'd have to leave whatever I was doing, go stick my shoes and coat on and get all wet in the rain going to the car just because she didn't want to get soaked walking to buy fags.
She did offer money at one point, especially when I started coming up with excuses not to go but I refused to take it. My view is that if she gave me a tenner it was no longer a favour as I was being compensated financially. And what would a tenner buy her? A dozen trips to the shop? After all, she's paid for it, right?

Nope. Not going there. Don't want her cash and don't want to do it at all. Now I have a list of excuses to rotate.

Hope next Fri goes well,too.
You are really nice and she should be buying YOU a drink every week just for driving them home which is saving them a large taxi fare. Entitled CFs.

You've not spoken to her face to face and just sent her a message, out of the blue expecting them to walk to yours for 15 minutes that's a long time when it's wet, they would be soaked getting to you

Thus speaks someone who doesn’t walk or cycle places! Heavy rain is actually fairly rare if you are just looking at a 15 minute slot. I cycle to and from work every day. About 15 minutes each way. Haven’t needed waterproofs yet this year.

Plus there is such a thing as an umbrella. A great invention.

She's straight up rude. Remind her you have been giving lifts for two years but your commitment have changed. You also need the time at home to do dinner. You have to drive half an out of your way to pick up and drop off (so an hour total). Therefore they need to be at your house by 6 or make other arrangements.

As for the weather I am sure they have boots, coats and umbrellas. My Dd and I go for winter walks after dinner it's not a big deal.

Spend a few minutes one boring evening toting up the monetary value of the 2 years worth of lifts. There are plenty of online calculators. Just for giggles.

Bet that number flashes into your head every time your ‘friend’ is ungrateful from now on.

You don’t need mumsnet to support you in real-time with these situations. There’s always an internal switch in people-pleasers, you just gotta find it! Post the number when you figure it out. Bet it’s eye-watering!

Reminds me of the mum who invited my DD to the cinema.

But then wanted me to drive them there and back.

Don’t deal with this over text. You and your friend need to just have a chat. Explain the difficulties for you and offer to pick them up if it’s raining but when it’s not raining they need to get to you for 6pm.

Why does OP have to commit to picking them up if it’s raining?? It might be a long standing arrangement but it isn’t working for OP and so she can say that. The friend isn’t giving anything in return.

Also every friendship is different and for some a text is more appropriate especially when the subject is a little confrontational. The friend pushed back a bit and I imagine it might have been harder for OP to deal with this over the phone or in person

NicEv, vickybanks, I have said previously but the reason I texted is that I genuinely did not think there would be an issue in asking her to come to me. I hadn't been planning it, I just thought about it so thought I'd text her whilst it was on my mind.

Also, that's how we generally communicate inbetween meeting up.

We hadn't seen each other face to face for a few weeks, and I wasn't sure when I'd see her again as I didn't know she was coming along that week until after I had texted.
Again, I thought 'that's great' because she'll be walking up with her mum so they can take the short cut, which only takes about 7 minutes.

She can drive, but doesn't have a car, and this has been the case for as long as I've known them so they're well used to needing to walk everywhere, or using public transport, cabs, etc, and definitely have the correct outdoor wear, etc.