To not invite this boy over for play dates because of his mother.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

My son is five years old, in Year 1 at school and he has five good friends. All of us moms get on well too.

Our sons do various activities together (sports and other things), we all go on group trips our together and maybe once a month us moms go out together to socialise child-free.

Anyhow, one of the mothers is lovely but quite materialistic (and likes to show off about things) and about six months ago I was round her house with my son as we were preparing to take the boys swimming and she told me that she doesn’t let her son go to anyone’s house (for a play date) unless she has been inside the house herself and looked around it to make sure it’s suitable for her son to spend time there. She told me a tale about one house she’d been in and there were some stains on the carpet and that the bathroom hadn’t looked like it had been cleaned recently and so she wouldn’t let her son go there even though he was really good friends with the woman’s daughter.

I have never invited her son to my house for this reason. He is the only one out of my son’s friends that I haven’t had over to play.

Of the four other friends, this week I have two of the boys coming over after school and next week the other two boys are coming over.

The woman in question cornered me in the school playground this morning and said she felt very hurt that I was excluding her son from the play dates.

Rather than skirt around the issue I told her that if she was only going to allow her son to come and play depending on her judgment of the quality of my house, as opposed to how long she and I have known each other (18 months) and how well our boys get on, then it wasn’t something I wanted to be involved in. I was polite to her about it but I still wanted her to know how uncomfortable I felt about her judgements of others.

She looked furious and stormed off.

But I’m not BU am I ?

Ok, I feel bad that her son isn’t getting invited round when the rest of the boys are, but why should I allow her into my house purely so she can look around it and make an assessment as to whether it’s suitable enough for her son to be in?

That’s not normal behaviour is it?!

It does sound like she has an OCD/cleanliness/overprotective/anxiety thing. Though she may be a massive snob as well . People with these issues often make elaborate excuses why they can't do the thing they avoid.
My DS's best friends mum was a lovely person but she couldn't bear taking her child to playdates at other houses. Or even to anywhere like a new softplay. We always went to hers despite it being the smallest, with the smallest garden. It became obvious it was a thing. So we continued to ask the boy over and when she said- 'Oh just come here instead, we went anyway. None of us made a fuss. I didn't feel me or my house was judged- it was her issue but as long as the kids were happy it was fine. She could judge all she liked but it wasn't going to make me tidy up anymore.
I'd invite her and the kid over just for his sake.

YANBU. I’m just commenting here as I’m dying to know how she was during the school run.
Well done OP!

Whether she's materialistic or not isn't relevant. Her comments about the other house were about cleanliness not materialism. I think we all judge each other's houses for cleanliness and safety if we're leaving our DCs there. That's part of your job as a parent. If a house looked like an episode of hoarders or was filthy, you wouldn't leave your DCs surely?
I wouldn't have punished her DS (and your own) by excluding him from playdates.

Surely you just ask the poor kid for a play date anyway ... if she wants to come too for a cuppa ( to check your house is clean enough ) then let her ...suggest that she comes too for a cuppa - the issue is letting her opinion matter .

Her poor little boy. You still can make this better as some PPs have explained. I feel you've maybe excluded the boy to 'draw out' the mum into a confrontation with you. Which isn't very nice. The other mum sounds a right twat though.

Please invite the boy and take it from there. I have a DC the same age and I'd let them play in others houses that I'd not been in so I agree she doesn't need to come in. You don't have to let her in. I wouldn't either given what you've said. But let it be HER decision to exclude the boy and not yours. Hopefully she'll realise how uncomfortable her inspection is making folk now you've pointed this out.

YABU to think that other parents shouldn’t want to know what kind of situation their very small child is going into alone. Knowing someone from the school gates for 18 months does not mean you are automatically able to feel confident that the home setting is appropriate or what you’d wish your child exposed to. The notion that your home isn’t appropriate may offend you, but better safe than sorry at that age. It’s not like a teenager who can just leave or call you on their mobile if they feel uncomfortable or out of their depth.

SHE is BVVVVVU if her reason for wanting to come to yours first is based on how big your tv is or how new your carpets are, instead of the above.

If it really is just the latter then you were not at all UR to tell her straight, and in fact probably did her and her son a huge favour going forward. (Assuming she learns from it).

I can’t believe people who are defending the OP. She was most likely “cornered” because she happily accepts play dates from the other woman but has never reciprocated. And when her child gets invited, she still bitches that it’s probably because the other mother wanted to point out her new tv or new kitchen.

She was probably just trying to make conversation with the OP.

She isn't normal doing things like that

I don't blame you op an good on you for telling her straight As a lot of people wouldn't.
Who on earth does this kind of stuff ?? Jesus I'd tell her where to go lol. Poor child she's guna make him loose a lot of friend time! Xx

So many posters are missing the point here - the OP doesn't WANT this mum in her house, because the other mum has already shown that she will gossip about the state of other people's houses with people, and the OP doesn't want to be the subject of such gossip!
And really, that's perfectly reasonable.

When she went to this woman's house, she was given the Grand Tour of every room - you can bet your life that this woman would want a reciprocal tour of the OP's house - who needs that?!

It's the other mum's fault that her son isn't being invited - because when he IS invited, she says No, because she hasn't inspected the house yet. Not much point in keeping on inviting him under those circumstances, is there!

If you did have her over, you'd surely be hard pressed to refrain from saying 'Will the main reception rooms be sufficient, or do you need to inspect our private bedrooms as well?' Well that's how I would feel!

I agree with you op. Who wants to invite a person over who will be openly judgemental and gossip afterwards? It's a shame for her son as he sounds sweet, but no.

None of us of the group of friends have asked her son over because none of us feel comfortable with her attitudes. She’s well within her rights to want to judge the cleanliness of other people’s homes, but that doesn’t mean we have to let her in to do it to our houses.

This right here is why I don't associate with "the school mums" - bunch of gossipy cliquey judgemental tw@ts, good god how dare she have a slightly different view of life to any of the rest of you!!

Because she has never invited him over on his own. It is always “Do you and ‘billy’ want to come over after school tomorrow?”

Nothing in this sentence tells me it's to see her new tv, it seems more like she's lonely and quite likes you (fuck knows why) and wants to build a friendship.

But maybe this giving, and expected receiving, of household tours is actually normal for her?!

This was perfectly normal among my DMs friendship group when I was a child and still is among some of my current friendship group.

I actually don't think there was anything wrong with telling her it's why you haven't invited her son over but you could have been a bit nicer about it and taken the opportunity to invite her over for coffee. If she then decides not to let him come after that then it's on her.

But as it stands I think you're the one behaving appallingly - you've basically decided you don't like her but other than she dared pass comment on how dirty someone's house was I can't really see from any of your posts what she's actually done ?!

Slightly off topic too but a word of advice. Dont let your sons life revolve around the same people - and yours too - get him to do things without the others etc. It will invariably go wrong, as you've started to find out with one parent. It's all nice when they're little but it can be suffocating as they get older.

She sounds very judgemental, well done for challenging her. When my children were young they had the best off times in the untidiest houses. Some things matter far more than a pristine house..

I think you should have asked the boy but made it clear to the mother that you wouldnt be facilitating one of her check ups.

A friend of my DDs lives in a filthy, smelly house and I do think less of the mother because of it but I wouldnt punish the child

I wouldn't let my 5 year old go to someone's house if I hadn't been there before. It's not about stains on carpets or clean bathrooms. I can't really give a good reason.

I would always pop my head in and day hi at the drop-off moment of a play-date but a full inspection is a bit much! I never found reason to snatch my child away, though a friend did.

She was dropping off for a birthday party and there was an enormous dog and multiple dog poos on the carpet of various ages. I would have made excuses and left with my child, too.

And I never let DS go to play on a particular farm where his friend ran pretty much wild with a clutch of brothers and other mums said there was an uncovered well and little supervision. Not worth the risk.

You were honest about how you felt, you didn't shilly shall around it, which I think is absolutely brilliant. I would never have let my DS go to a house I had never been to before though... Not so I could inspect the carpets but just to ensure he would be safe. We went to one house after school, where 3 adults sat around an overflowing ashtray with a constant cigarette lit. (the mum was 5 months pregnant which explained the difficult pregnancy and the hospitalisation for a lung infection the month before). The dad screamed in his 3 year olds face and called him a faggot and the 3 year old defacated on the lawn. We didn't go again. Just for clarification there were definately stains on the carpet. Maybe the other mum had experienced something like that and just phrased herself badly? Although you get a feel for what someone means and if it had just been a mucky carpet and a skid mark on the lav it wouldn't have stopped us going back.

Thumb that's not the only point. The OP is acting as though parents should be happy to let their DCs go to houses alone because they've known the parents at the school gates for 18 months.

Knowing people at school or at activities doesn't tell you much about their home life at all. You see posters on here all the time who have a partner who smokes weed in the garden or who drinks. You don't get a sense of that unless you visit their home.

To be honest you are and you arent.
I would invite the boy as he must be distraught when he hears about all the others meeting up and he isnt invited.
But I would also tell the mum that she will not be allowed to snoop around your house and if she doesn't bring because of that, then that's her choice and she can explain the reason to her son.

you're my hero OP. i think you are FAB' for being honest.

I think the age of the children puts a different spin on things, if you are not prepared to have her come in and vet your home(s) then that's perfectly understandable.

She may have valid reasons as per one of the PP said, we don't know if she has had something traumatic happen, but I rather think after 18m she would be more honest with you if this was the case.

My next door neighbour is completely batshit. she stays out of my way nowadays but when we didn't know any better had just moved in, she would chat about all manner of people, bitching about this and that, and you just know that she has not a single good word to say about anyone, so if she had the information and opportunity to talk about me she would be bitching about me. I've passed that info on to those who know her, but kept her at a loooong arm's length. She used to return our bin until I caught her practically cricking her neck to have a gawp at the garden and work we'd had done, so I told her that she had no need to bring my bin up, she tried to insist, but there is no way I'm letting her have a nose around my home/garden.

I do think it's unfortunate that the boy doesn't get to join in, but when he's older perhaps his mother will be less fixated.

If this subject comes up again, I would tell the woman that there was no way I was setting myself up to be 'vetted' by her or anyone else and that if bobby wanted to come over alone when he's older, that's fine, but that she's overstepped the mark with the insistence on a nose around my home.

I get it. Yes its crap for the child, but then, with his mother like this, it's the very thin edge of a very long wedge....

Just invite the poor boy, have his mum round at the same time and get on with it.

If you’ve nothing to be ashamed of you’ve got nothing to worry about.

This boy will think he is being left out because he’s not liked. Please don’t do this to him regardless of what his mother is like. It’s not his fault.

the OP doesn't WANT this mum in her house, because the other mum has already shown that she will gossip about the state of other people's houses with people

but she has no issue going to the other woman's house. A bit hypocritical don't you think?

To answer some questions or respond to some comments others have made...

I have said numerous times that we are not close friends and that our relationship is solely based on the fact that that our children go to school together and have become good friends. During the week we see each other at drop-off and pick-ups, and three days a week we walk home together with the children as we live close to each other. We also see each other three times a week outside of school as our boys do activities together, and then I also socialise with her and the other mums about once a month where we all go out for dinner and drinks. We aren’t friends who call each other up or know the ins and outs of each other’s personal lives but we do spend a lot of time together because of the children. We have both met each other’s husbands and they get on well with each other too.

I have never judged her for what she spends her money on. All I said was that she spends her money on nice things for her house which is stating a fact, not passing judgement.

We are not “excluding” her son to be nasty. She is preventing him from being included because she won’t let him come to our houses unless she has checked out where and how we live first. Putting the play dates to one side, all six boys spend a lot of tine together outside of school because of their shared activities so he isn’t ostracised at all - they all get on really well together.

I don’t think my reply to her was rude, unkind and personal, I was just being honest with her. What was I supposed to do instead? Not tell her the truth and instead let her think I don’t like her son?

When she invites me over it is always followed by a sentence relating to her wanting to show me something.

“Oh good, you can come and look at my new kitchen.”

“Oh good, I can show you the new TV we’ve just bought.”

“Oh good, you will be able to see our new Christmas Tree. It’s huge, cost us a fortune!”

Oh good, you can take a look at the new motorbike my husband has just bought.”

“Oh good, I can show you the brochures of our upcoming holiday to Mexico. It has cost us so much money but it really is beautiful..”

Etc etc etc. There are many more examples like this but these are the ones that spring to mind because they have been her most recent ones. She has never invited us over without there being something new she wants to show me.

It does drive me mad at times but I go along with it and smile, and coo over her new purchases because it’s almost like she needs some validation of how pleasant her life is. It gets a bit wearing but because she’s otherwise a really nice person I don’t have it in me to show any annoyance towards her. Maybe what happened this morning was a result of loads of pent up frustration of always going along with her....and that for once I just wanted to say what I was really feeling.

I have never said anywhere that I don’t like her. Aside from the materialistic/judgemental qualities she is a nice person.

I would have no problem inviting her around for a drink but I’m pretty sure that just sitting in my kitchen/living room would not be enough for her in relation to her assessing how suitable my house is for her child.

Anyhow... The School Run

We were all standing in our usual place and although it was a bit awkward I made sure I still spoke to her because I really don’t want any animosity. As the other moms branched off it was then just me and this mother, walking home together as we do a few times a week. I said I was sorry if I had offended her this morning but that I just wanted to be honest. She told me that she didn’t want to see inside my house just to make judgements and that I was wrong to assume that. I said that the impression she gave to me was that she likes to assess how clean a house is before she’d let her son be left there, and that I felt hurt she’d still hold that attitude towards me after 18 months of knowing each other. She got a bit snappy and defensive and told me I had got it all wrong.

I then asked, that seeing as I had apparently misconstrued things, then did her son wanted to come to mine for tea tonight then and I would drop him off home later. She declined the offer and said it was too short notice and they already had plans - fair enough.

The boys are doing an activity together tomorrow evening so I said that if she didn’t mind I could collect both boys from school, her son could come back to mine for tea and then I would take them both to the activity and she could then just pick her son up at the end.

She didn’t give me a direct answer and said she wasn’t sure, she didn’t know if her husband wanted to take their son, and she would have to text me later.

I said that was fine and we parted ways.

I’m pretty sure that when she does text me later she will be declining my offer

you were just being honest saying that since she had already told you she was particular about who's house she let her child visit, you assumed she would not approve of yours because it isn't always sparkling clean