To not invite this boy over for play dates because of his mother.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

My son is five years old, in Year 1 at school and he has five good friends. All of us moms get on well too.

Our sons do various activities together (sports and other things), we all go on group trips our together and maybe once a month us moms go out together to socialise child-free.

Anyhow, one of the mothers is lovely but quite materialistic (and likes to show off about things) and about six months ago I was round her house with my son as we were preparing to take the boys swimming and she told me that she doesn’t let her son go to anyone’s house (for a play date) unless she has been inside the house herself and looked around it to make sure it’s suitable for her son to spend time there. She told me a tale about one house she’d been in and there were some stains on the carpet and that the bathroom hadn’t looked like it had been cleaned recently and so she wouldn’t let her son go there even though he was really good friends with the woman’s daughter.

I have never invited her son to my house for this reason. He is the only one out of my son’s friends that I haven’t had over to play.

Of the four other friends, this week I have two of the boys coming over after school and next week the other two boys are coming over.

The woman in question cornered me in the school playground this morning and said she felt very hurt that I was excluding her son from the play dates.

Rather than skirt around the issue I told her that if she was only going to allow her son to come and play depending on her judgment of the quality of my house, as opposed to how long she and I have known each other (18 months) and how well our boys get on, then it wasn’t something I wanted to be involved in. I was polite to her about it but I still wanted her to know how uncomfortable I felt about her judgements of others.

She looked furious and stormed off.

But I’m not BU am I ?

Ok, I feel bad that her son isn’t getting invited round when the rest of the boys are, but why should I allow her into my house purely so she can look around it and make an assessment as to whether it’s suitable enough for her son to be in?

That’s not normal behaviour is it?!

With respect to the messy vs dirty issue - I’d say a bathroom that looked like it “hadn’t been cleaned in a while” was clearly visibly dirty. And I’d assume as it’s a bathroom that makes it very likely to be unhygienic.

I still think the OP has punished this poor boy because she doesn’t like the mother. Yes, the boys may all see each other at external activities but he will be aware that the others meet and go to each other’s houses and he doesn’t.

By you previously not inviting him, you’ve made it you that excludes him, not his mother. You could have invited him anyway even knowing you might get turned down. At least then you wouldn’t be the one who is preventing him from going.

You’ve insulted and upset this woman, made it obvious you’ve all talked about her (as no one else invited her boy either) and now issued some kind of sad, after the fact invite that to be honest I’d decline as well in the circumstances. You’ve shown the kind of person you are and I’d certainly not leave my young child with you.

She’s previously invited you to her home on several occasions and you’ve gone. She’s clearly trying to make friends with you. Yet you’ve never invited her to yours. That’s rude. You could have gently had a word about how her comments cane across and let her explain herself. Instead you’ve excluded her son, then attacked and blamed her for it. No wonder she wants to avoid you.

You keep claiming to like her, but then assassinate parts of her character. You clearly don’t like her and you’ve hurt her through her son... well done you.

I don't understand people on here slamming the OP. It is NOT NORMAL to want to inspect inside a house. That is simply....NOT.....NORMAL. It makes me wonder how my generation grew up, going to friends houses to play, without our parents stopping for coffee. Unless each other's parents were friends, most parents never visited the homes where their kids played. It just.....was not even thought of. Whats more, many mums then didn't work, so they had more time to visit and check houses, and it wasn't done even then, let alone now in two-parent working homes. This thread shows how out of control helicopter parenting really is these days. If their kid looks healthy, not bruised, is happy and alive, why do you need to see the inside of their house? It's obviously safe enough for their DC.

Damn right if someone said to me they like to inspect the house that their precious would be playing in (and, that would only be the living room/child's bedroom area) I would be very offended. So, too, I think would any rational normal human being. And no, I wouldn't invite their child over if that was their attitude. Because,

1. I would be enabling their attitude and behaviour, suggesting to them that it was ok for them to do that.
2. I kept my DCs alive, why do you think your precious will be in harm during 60 minutes?
3. It's the principle of the thing, as we know the mother in question gossiped to her about another person's house. We know the mother is a snob and judgemental nasty gossip. I would not want to be friends with such a nasty gossip. Her DC would be welcome, but I would not want to have coffee with her in my home.
4. People are missing that the mother was talking about STAINS on carpets. Stains are just that....stains. Even after washing the area immediately, sometimes a stain develops. There is NOTHING you can do about that. A stain says nothing about hygiene. All it says is that something was once spilled, and was cleaned up. Even with steam cleaning or shampoo cleaning by professionals, some stains just cannot come out, and remain there permanently. What was the OP to do? Buy brand new carpets every time someone spill some tea or wine? Even mats only do so much and eventually get worn and stained too. So sue the OP that she doesn't have the money to get brand new carpet/mats laid, every time someone spills something. That the mother actually thinks that a stain on a carpet is a bad thing or means bad hygiene, is completely batshit crazy. It is completely normal wear and tear for a home that is lived in, perhaps not for the mother's perfect display home. Unless OP's carpet, rugs, mats, couch etc are 100% without any stains, the OP will be gossiped about by the mother.
5. Clearly, the OP was not wrong about the mother, in fact, the mother has been given chances to have her DC go to OP's home, without the mother, and the mother declined. So it is more than obvious despite the desperate lies and denials of the mother, that it IS all about judging the inside of people's homes. The offers from the OP were rejected, hence, proving the OP was right all along. Did people also miss that the mother gave the OP a tour of every room in her house? Do you not realise that the mother would expect the OP to do the same, and give the mother a tour of every room? Meaning, she DOES want to judge and gossip. I don't see what my bedroom has to do with her child's safety and cleanliness. Her child wouldn't be in my bedroom, or the laundry. No kid would have. So, why the need to show every room? Just proof that it is to have a sticky beak and gossip, using 'safety and hygiene' as an excuse.

The only person here letting down the boy, is his mother. The mother is the only one responsible for her son not being invited over. And even after it was pointed out to her that her attitude was why, she still refused the offers of the OP. It is absolutely extraordinary that people are attacking the OP. People get away with shitty behaviour and attitudes like the mother's, because people like some on here, would rather blame the OP for not enabling her, than blame the person at fault; the mother.

I also think it's hypocritical how people expect the OP to just fold to the mother's boundaries, but the OP's boundaries are not respected. I genuinely believe if most of the people attacking the OP had to deal with the mother in real life, they would be exactly like the OP. Why should the OP give in and invite the mother, when the mother has shown she is a nasty gossip? What about the OP's rights to not be disrespected and gossiped about? What about the OP's boundaries as a person?

The woman is an idiot.
If she wouldn't let her kid come over based on some stains, she ain't the type I want in my house. I also won't open myself up to be the school gate gossip. "Oh squeekums home had some dirt brought in by the dog and she didnt race to get the vacuum and there was a STAIN on the carpet"
She being a rigid ass and it's her own fault her kid is left out. I feel sorry for the kid.
I've never inspected or been inspected by dd friends parents. Definitely not the norm around here

Well done OP, I'd have said something along the lines of "well sorry, i know my house wouldnt be to your standard" and walked off.

OP are you American (you say mostly mom although once mum, you say "call each other up" so I am wondering), and, are you in the UK or the US? I am wondering if there are cultural differences here? The walking home from school makes me think you are in the UK, as well as the going out for a meal with the other mums... Do you think there's anything cultural?

I have to say I just feel sorry for the kids.

Sorry but I wouldn’t allow my 5 year old to go into a house I’ve never been in. Some people live like pigs, some have dodgy ‘partners’, or massive dogs. I wouldn’t be bothered by some mess but poor hygiene is a problem for me. I’m actually surprised the majority would let someone take their child into a house they’d never been to.

My eldest DC is almost double that age and even if she goes to birthday house parties, DH or I will go inside for a few minutes when dropping her off.

@Tellmetruth4 How on earth are you going to ascertain hygiene or if a partner is dodgy (you won't know until you actually get to know them) in a few minutes? It's impossible and a really ridiculous excuse.

This is bravery now is it? Being bald faced rude, making her feel like shit, excluding a 5yr old boy - and you don't think you've come off as having a superior attitude OP?

I like how you say "we" too - I'd best my house you've bitched about it with those other moms.....

The cognitive dissonance must be staggering.

The few minutes would be for a party my 8 year old would go to and if there were a whole bunch of other kids there I’d worry less. I’m happy to do some polite chat for a bit and leave.

However, for a play date for a 5 year old where I assume it would just be my DC in the house with the host family, I would be staying longer, probably the entire first play date. I think I’d have a decent idea of how the host lives and of who else lives there if I stayed for the first one.

I’ve never felt insulted if parents want to hang around my house for first play dates. Why would I? My house is not a show home but it’s not unhygienic and I haven’t got some random new ‘DP’ sitting in his boxers in the corner. I have nothing to hide.

In any case, I’m not being ridiculous at all. I just parent differently from most of the people on this thread. My 5 year old would not be going into someone’s house that DH or I have never been in. You do what you feel is best for your child and I’ll do the same for mine.

I once went to a home where the older brother had all his mates over playing Xbox in his room and you could hear lots of swearing. I also went to school with a girl who’s dad let them smoke weed with him and he took Es with her and her DB when we were 14.

Some people have got shit to hide so I want to see inside the house my DC is going to.

She is either butt hurt that you called her out and tried to back pedal. Unsuccessfully as she still cant bring herself to let her DC come round without seeing your house. Or she is upset that you as s "friend" think that of her. As maybe she meant other people she wasn't as close too.

Well done you, you have been completely honest. I feel sorry for her poor boy with a mother like that, he is in for rough route in life if she is teaching him to judge on property/money alone

Wow, a MN first... Someone actually told someone directly what their problem is.

Congrats OP!

This woman knows me well enough to know that their child would not be at risk...

I don’t have large dogs - or any dogs/pets.
I don’t drink or smoke or take drugs.
She has met both my children - she knows there will be no 14 year olds swearing upstairs.
She has met my DH plenty of times, so no strange men sitting around in their pants etc.

She knows there is no risk to her son’s physical safety because after 18 months of being intertwined via our children she knows the kind of person I am and the kind of life I lead. All she wants to do is come into my house to check how clean it is and decide whether it’s good enough for her son to be in. It’s that black and white.

Her “need” to assess my house is not something I’m prepared to facilitate because I know that if she will gossip about the state of other people’s houses then she will gossip about mine if it’s not up to her standards.

If other parents are happy to have their home scrutinised by her then that’s their choice, but it’s not something I want to be part of.

I offered twice yesterday for her son to come over and she turned me down both times so in terms of who is excluding him, it certainly isn’t me.

And to the poster who asked - I am in the UK. Family background of being raised in Birmingham, hence the use of the word “mom”

Good for you for being straight with her. You've got healthy boundaries and clear communication skills - a bloomin first on Mumsnet!

As you can see by some of the responses on this thread, people don't like it when others are assertive in their boundaries. It seems to be a threat to their own ego. Rather than reflecting they go on the attack. I love how people trot out some mythical virtual ettiquette book and quote from it like its gospel (one which no one else has seen or signed up to ). Then you are accused of being (cue dramatic music) dum dum derrrrr .... rude! The worst crime of all apparently. What guff. The ridiculousness of it makes me laugh.

You have done the right thing and maybe deep down she may think things over and relax a little with her friends, which in turn could benefit her son. Who knows.

It’s just so frustrating. A few months ago her car was written off after a small bump she’d been involved in and she asked if she could use my car for a few days to get to and from work whilst she waited for a courtesy car to be arranged. I wasn’t using my car so said it was fine and she had it for about two days (and yes she gave me petrol money before anyone asks)

I know that’s nothing to do with the issue in hand but it just frustrates me that she feels comfortable enough with me to ask to borrow my car for a few days, but God Forbid she lets her son come to my house for tea before inspecting it first.

That's just strange. I really think you have done the right thing reading your last post.

Well after reading your last 2 posts, YANBU.

You’ve done all you can. She knows you have not excluded her son, but you are excluding her because of her need to vet and worse gossip and judge if you don’t pass muster.

She needs time to absorb what you’ve said, it’s challenging her reality. That won’t be easy for her.

She’s obviously very insecure, only getting you round when she’s got something to show off, but she’s welcome to have hang ups about cleaning and other people’s cleanliness, but if she is open about it and vocal about those who fall foul, she’ll have to understand that there are consequences to those decisions.

I know having a child is a bit of a shock to the system but it does seem to turn some mothers quite batty sometimes. It’s neurosis dressed up as concern for the child/“aren’t I a good mother”

Sorry but I wouldn’t allow my 5 year old to go into a house I’ve never been in. Some people live like pigs, some have dodgy ‘partners’, or massive dogs

The living like pigs is irrelevant to whether your child will have fun in their house.

The dodgy partner may not be there when you carry out your inspection so how will that help?

And most people like to talk about their dogs so you'll know if they have dogs without visiting.

@berlinbabylon. I don’t know why you’re so invested in how I’d bring up MY 5 year old. I’m more than happy for you to send YOUR child into any old house where you don’t the people very well but I’m not doing it and won’t change my mind because a stranger on the internet wants me to.

I feel really sorry for her ds - she is effectively ensuring that he’s excluded. But you’ve done the right thing though, she sounds batshit.

This woman knows me well enough to know that their child would not be at risk...

you are thinking far too much of yourself. It's normal for a parent to want to have a look at a house before leaving their 5 year old in there.

Most parents I know would be exactly the same - I can think of a couple of times where people ASKED a group of us if so-and-so house was suitable as their kid was invited and they wouldn't be able to check it before a playdate (the problem of full-time working parents we all have).
It's entirely NORMAL.

You are miffed because you assume it should be obvious you have a perfect home.

I would judge any parent who are irresponsible and careless enough not to care where they send their kids. The fact that she also invite YOU at the same time as your kid should show you that it's not a one-way thing either.

I only feel sorry for the DS because his friend has a mother like the OP who refuses to invite the other mother over. In most normal environment, it would be a complete non-issue.