Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

catcalled and groped every time I go out

305 replies

DuploTower · 15/01/2020 09:29

Aibu reasonable to be suspicious of women who claim to be catcalled and groped every time they go out?

Or am I just too old and unattractive to know what that's like and that it does happen.

I'm certainly not saying it never happens. And if someone finds it uncomfortable or intimidating it's not OK.

But every time you go out?

Is it a bit of a stealth brag?

They must be exaggerating.

Aibu?

OP posts:
Tartyflette · 15/01/2020 11:04

I was shocked when DS' girlfriend told me she regularly gets catcalled on the Tube, also gets barged into deliberately by men. Not every time but a lot.
She is pretty/attractive but not extremely so.
But she is very petite and I think there's a sort of bullying element to it as well.

Austriana · 15/01/2020 11:07

When I was a teenager living in London I was catcalled nearly every day. I used to hate it, being yelled at from vans and being beeped at, which made me jump out of my skin. I would try and avoid walking past the car wash because of the comments from the men who worked there.

It's not bragging, there was nothing special about me and nothing pleasant about the experience.

PlomBear · 15/01/2020 11:09

It was definitely worse when I lived in London

2monstermash · 15/01/2020 11:09

I am late twenties and I'm telling you it happens to me everytime I go to a public place in the UK (usually Birmingham for work). I would say I'm attractive but I don't stop traffic, usually dressed fairly normally and smart, nothing attention-grabbing e.g. heeled boots, smart jeans, blazer when I'm out and about, or even more casual stuff.

It can be anything from being 'bossed about' by men e.g. being told off, being told what to do (e.g. don't stand there, don't drink that, you shouldn't be on your phone so much etc?? I firmly put them back in their place), to sexual/creepy comments, to people just trying to chat me up but very forcefully and in an intimidating way, to being intimidating with body language (e.g. back me into space and start talking, or block exit point with body or arm), locking doors of taxis and refusing to let me out til I've said or done xyz, all the way to physical contact, from just creepy all the way to sexual harrasment.

It happens everywhere, in the centre of town, on a quiet street, in a car park, in shops, on trains or in stations, on planes. I wish I was lying about this or making it up for attention/stealth brag, whatever you want to say. I'm a confident woman that just goes about my business, but perhaps I do just have a vulnerable look about me? I hate that, and I hate that I have to almost practice what I'm going to say or do when I feel these situations arising.

There is a horrible horrible misogynist culture in the UK and when I react or shout back, more often than not I've been given dirty looks or told off by passers by for making a scene rather than supported!

Luckily I live in a city in mainland Europe and it NEVER happens here (in the 5 years I've lived here).

MarshaBradyo · 15/01/2020 11:09

I don’t think I’ve been groped (can’t recall don’t want to think back to try and remember) but I’m so angry that anyone has. It’s that fruitless rage that has everything to do with violation and lack of power.

Wingedharpy · 15/01/2020 11:10

I do the "hand on the small of the back to get past" thing to both men and women - I'm a woman.
I only do it in noisy places though and I do it as often people don't hear the "excuse me" from me and I don't want them to suddenly step back on to my toes with their hobnail boots/stilettoes.

Thelnebriati · 15/01/2020 11:10

The woman who filmed ''10 hours of silent walking through Manhattan wearing jeans and a crew neck t-shirt'' was harassed over 100 times in 10 hours

nypost.com/2014/10/28/woman-harassed-108-times-in-10-hours-on-nyc-streets/

RhodaCamel · 15/01/2020 11:11

This happens a lot with my friend. Her dd’s are 18 and 22 and very attractive. They have men hassling them all of them time. She says it’s worse abroad, when they go on holiday it happens even with her dh there, men will come up to her girls and say things with their dad right there with them!
I think this happens a lot with young girls, it used to happen a lot when I was younger. My dd is only 11 but I do worry this will happen to her.

UpfieldHatesWomen · 15/01/2020 11:11

crochetmonkey74 I agree, a pretty shitty way to talk about women who've been traumatised by this kind of thing. From their early teens women have to consider how to dress when leaving the house to try to deter harassment a lot of the time, but then they're not even allowed to gain sympathy when it happens in case it looks like they're 'full of themselves'. Many times when I lived in my old neighbourhood and it was summer I had to brace myself and be in the right mood before popping down to the shops because I knew it was likely I'd have to deal with unwanted attention. It stops you just getting on with your day having to deal with these annoyances, and at worse is frightening, when they turn on you or there's a pack of them. I remember when I walked past a group of maybe 8 men with their dicks out pissing in the street. One of them was waving his dick around at me and I told him to fuck off. I then went in the nearby bar (was on holiday and just trying to kill a few hours before my flight home) and then they all came in together and were harassing me, shouting things out, throwing things at me, calling me ugly. I wasn't f*ing flattered, I was scared.

UYScuti · 15/01/2020 11:11

Most of the harassment I've been subjected to has been men people shouting at me out of vans and cars while I'm out running or cycling, like shouting very loud as they drive past me in an obvious attempt to destabilise me whilst cycling, I never do anything because obviously I'm just trying to stay alive and I'm a small woman what can I do
If I was a large man I would grab the cunts and beat the shit out of them
And of course that's why they only do it to small vulnerable people

nutbrownhare15 · 15/01/2020 11:12

It happened to me more when younger. Which makes sense if you think about it as it's more an expression of dominance than of sexual interest.

2monstermash · 15/01/2020 11:14

Perfect comment @PracticallyFamous. I've always seen it as a control thing when it happens to me because there is often a bullying/control aspect. I'm quite petite and look quite young, but confident, usually smartly dressed and well-spoken, they don't like it.

LonginesPrime · 15/01/2020 11:15

Is it a bit of a stealth brag?

OP, I'm guessing you're either a man or have been groomed by one for this to even enter your head.

No-one who has experienced sexual harassment would ever think this otherwise.

1forsorrow · 15/01/2020 11:15

I grew up in the main vice area of a big city, I got propositioned regularly from 11 or 12, even got propositioned when 9 months pregnant and I learned to never make eye contact, walk with purpose, never look at passing cars as it just invited attention. In more general areas I have had it happen, when I was younger, but I think generally it went over my head as I was in my "bubble" did cause offence at times as friends would say they had waved at me/called out to me and I'd ignored them.

I saw Frank Skinner being interviewed the other day and he said he saw a woman struggling to close her case in an airport and he didn't offer to help her as it's too risky. Horrible that people can't risk helping someone for fear of being accused of something. Having said that I was in London a couple of years ago and practically had to fight off young men who wanted to help with my luggage, smartly dressed men in their 20s or 30s and was helped off the train, onto the escalator and off again. One of the advantages of being old as it would probably never occur to them that I was as dangerous as a young woman. Or maybe I just looked like their granny.

FreedomfromPE · 15/01/2020 11:15

It's not about attractiveness. It's not a compliment. It's never a compliment.

UYScuti · 15/01/2020 11:16

They don't like you looking confident it makes them feel inferior so they have to try and knock you down a few pegs 🙄

2monstermash · 15/01/2020 11:19

If it's too loud to hear, normal men tap women on the shoulder or arm to get past. Only creepy men think it's acceptable to place their hand around a stranger's hips or small of their back.

SummerPavillion · 15/01/2020 11:20

OP have you any further thoughts to add?

2monstermash · 15/01/2020 11:21

I saw Frank Skinner being interviewed the other day and he said he saw a woman struggling to close her case in an airport and he didn't offer to help her as it's too risky.

What a load of bullshit - men have invented a whole new way to not bother to help women!!

I've been helped by creeps before, and helped by normal nice people, if your intentions are good then what exactly is there to worry about?

JacquesHammer · 15/01/2020 11:22

I saw Frank Skinner being interviewed the other day and he said he saw a woman struggling to close her case in an airport and he didn't offer to help her as it's too risky

I’m not sure about that. That’s a bit into the territory of “god you can’t even ask a woman out now”.

A pleasant “do you need a hand?” is a fairly normal thing to do whether you’re male/female!

RiddleyW · 15/01/2020 11:22

I went to university with a woman who had a sort of Jessica Rabbit figure. Insanely curvy - like size 8 bottoms and GG boobs.

It was absolutely constant for her (my observation rather than her report). Men used to pull over to shout at her from their car all the time. Pricks.

NotYourHun · 15/01/2020 11:22

Depends where you’re going out I guess? Clubs and shitty bars in my late teens/early 20s? I fully expected to get groped. The places were just full of young people on heat. It was like a massive testosterone party. I’m not saying it’s okay but I definitely didn’t manage a night out without having someone grind up against me or squeeze my bum. I’m hopeful that things have changed in the last 5-10 years though!

Day to day in the supermarket or even at the pub, no I wouldn’t expect to be abused and doubt it happens ‘all the time’.

Loki2020 · 15/01/2020 11:23

I am late twenties and I'm telling you it happens to me everytime I go to a public place in the UK (usually Birmingham for work).

Area I was growing up in wasn't far from there.

10 hours of silent walking through Manhattan wearing jeans and a crew neck t-shirt'' was harassed over 100 times in 10 hours

Sadly I'm unsurprised. I rarely if ever went out in just crew neck and jeans -I'd always have a jacket, cardian - something to hide behind even in summer which I still do now TBH.

Most groping I experienced - which was thankfully much rarer experince in my life- was on crowded commuter trains in my 20's where I was wearing a very conservative suit for work.

Somemore · 15/01/2020 11:24

As a teenager it happened to me a lot. I was even followed half the way home one by a man who said he'd followed me because he wanted to ask me out. Why he thought that was appropriate I do not know.

Now I'm over forty and dress like my teenage son it doesn't happen to me and I hope the world has moved on and it happens less in general, but that might be optimistic.

TimeMarchesOnNeverEnding · 15/01/2020 11:25

I find your post disgusting TBH OP. Calling it a stealth boast is hideous. Those agreeing bec

When I lived in a London and worked in a pub (in my teens/20s) I was catcalled regularly, I was groped pretty often too but mainly it was the consistent invasion of my personal space. Men standing too close on the tube, brushing their hand on my bum when there was loads of room to get by etc. It definitely feels like it was every day and sometimes more than once a day. My worst experience was having a man in a car follow me slowly all the way down the road shouting suggestive things at me or being aggressive when I ignored him. Had another car not come along I'm sure he would have tried to get me in the car. Apparently I was asking for it because I was wearing a skirt.

It has made my internal sensor of personal safety nearly always on full on alert. Even now, at nearly 40, it effects the decisions I make about how I will travel to places and where I walk alone.

Talking about it isn't a stealth boast it's reality for a lot of people. Those agreeing because it's not their experience are just as bad.

(Sorry for the strange text at the top,
The app won't let me scroll back up to amend the text).

Swipe left for the next trending thread