catcalled and groped every time I go out

[DuploTower]

Aibu reasonable to be suspicious of women who claim to be catcalled and groped every time they go out?

Or am I just too old and unattractive to know what that's like and that it does happen.

I'm certainly not saying it never happens. And if someone finds it uncomfortable or intimidating it's not OK.

But every time you go out?

Is it a bit of a stealth brag?

They must be exaggerating.

Aibu?

YABU. I've never heard anyone say it happens every single time (at least in the UK) but it happens often enough to most women to be irritating and sometimes frightening, esp. if they are young.

Since I was a teenager I've been a habitual user of headphones to deter and block unwelcome outside intrusions when I'm out and about alone. It isn't always enough, particularly when I'm out jogging. Occasionally men still jump in front of me or wave their arms about with stupid smiles at their friends to try and attract my attention to whatever they're shouting. This is in cities and they're often drunk and with a group so I'm mildly annoyed more than threatened. I'm not very attractive either - just a very average 40 something in running gear.

A couple of years ago my headphones broke and I had a week waiting for my new ones to arrive. I went about my normal life consistently without headphones for the first time in decades and was amazed at the amount of low-level street harassment racked up in a short interval, including whistling and both derogatory and "complimentary" comments on my body.

It's real, current, and very unwelcome.

Ha! It’s still a daily occurrence for my daughters (20s) - catcalling definitely 90 per cent of time and groping/pestering/following less often thankfully. We live in London and they study nearby. They don’t go out dressed for clubbing it makes no difference. I thought it was better than when I was in my 20s (1980s/90s) but still common.

Men tried to grope me when I was pregnant and had a child in a buggy it makes no difference how you are dressed. You have to be seriously fucked up to think it’s a compliment.

I don’t consider a man putting his hand in the small of my back to get past a grope though. I can understand that. It’s not aggressive but it absolutely is entitled male shit again. Have you ever seen a man squeeze past another man in that way?

I don't consider a man putting his hand on the small of my back to get past a grope though so maybe that's why. People can't hear a thing in a club, so that's why they don't bother saying excuse me.

I had men put their hands up my skirt on many, many occasions. Literally, sneak up behind me, and stick their hands between my legs, or on my backside. Then, either run away, or grin inanely at me, like that was a valid conversation starter. I agree that things have got better since I was going out regularly, but this kind of mentality is still out there.

I’m sorry but this happens to nobody every time they go out, it just doesn’t. That’s bullshit

Does it happen to some women, occasionally when they go out- probably

YANBU op

I get cat called frequently. It’s because I come home a little on the late side fairly often and walk through town to get back to my house (prolely teenagers hang around there at that time and cat call anything that looks like it might posses a vagina). In theory if h only went out a specific times to specific places it would happen every time I went out.

I've said this before but if any woman thinks a catcall is a compliment on their appearance and doesn't believe those of us who say it isn't, try this simple experiment: indicate to the man or men in some way that you don't find their comment welcome. I can guarantee that in five seconds flat you will go from a "sexy babe" to an "ugly dyke"* or a "stuck up cunt" that they "wouldn't touch with a bargepole" or similar. The type of man who catcalls is the type of man whose hatred of women is never very far from the surface, because it's a form of misogynistic control - trying to remind women that they believe the public sphere is owned and controlled by men.

*This type of man seems to think that the only reason a woman would turn down the chance to worship his mighty penis is if she isn't attracted to men at all, and they use 'dyke' as one of the worst insults they can think of.

I know we've had these discussions on here before - I think I must have a "don't even think about it" face.

I am shocked when I hear about sexual harassment at universities, too. When I was at university, the male students used to be great about walking the girls home and I wasn't aware of any kind of unwanted attention. I really wonder what has changed in that regard.

DH says, not entirely unseriously I think, because university is now open to so many more people, the calibre of people going has changed. I did tell him you can be a harassing twotsit whether you are very clever or not!

I dont think it is a stealth brag, its abusive and not directly related to how attractive you are- it's mainly about intimidation. Groping is sexual assault, would you say a rape victim was stealth bragging!? Its statements like that, that put people who have been groped off from reporting it.

I used to get groped a lot in clubbing days, in those days though it was just accepted as what happened, I would hope things would be a bit different now?

I don't see cat calling as much from static builders etc as I think they are worried now about being sacked or slated online but I still see it a lot from vans driving past. I live on a busy main road and I'd say it happens to me about once a month (including when I was pregnant) and I am middle aged so I would think it happens a lot more if you're obviously younger. I know people who have had to change their running route as they get beeped and shouted at so much.

Catcalling not so much. But groping in nightclubs.... Abolutely. From ages 17 - 23 (stopped going about this age). It happened all the time when I was not obviously out w a boyfriend or male friend. Myself and friends sort of accepted it as a given. I even had men grab my boobs a few times. I presume times have changed though....

It used to happen to me on a very regular basis when I lived in a different location (and obviously was younger). I've found it happens far more in areas with new immigrants - in this case Middle Eastern and North African, although of course from lots of white men in vans too. It's not necessarily just cat-calling, but comments of mates to one another, or being told to smile, or being followed, taxi drivers asking sexual questions and not letting you get out, asking for a hug, men following me around in the gym and staring at my vagina/ass etc then trying to give me an unasked for 'tutorial', workmen in my own house commenting on my body and asking me if I'm single, having men obviously look you up and down and stare at your tits etc. I believe the construction industry has training now and there's been a big effort to clean up sexual harassment. I don't know if it's just because I've gotten older, but I don't tend to get harassed by builders now as I did when I was 13-30. I think a lot of it is to do with being tall and blonde rather than any kind of gorgeousness, particularly outside of Northern Europe.

From 11 to 20 something it happened pretty much every time i went any where. Still happens occasionally now and im early 40s

I’ve never been groped but I did used to get cat called wherever I went a few years ago, even when I was with my children for heavens sake. People would shout things out of the car window or beep their horn at me, it was humiliating and I hated it. I didn’t go around boasting about it, it was nothing to boast about...

It was almost always white men in vans or flashy cars fwiw.

I used to get it almost every time I went out as a teenager. I had massive breasts and a small frame. I'd constantly get workmen yelling from vans "Get yer tits out". It was humiliating. The worst times was in the summer when, like all my friends, I'd wear a vest top but being bigger on top meant vest tops for me showed a lot of cleavage which some men took as an invitation! Sadly I couldn't modify mens behaviour so I had to modify the way I dressed to avoid being harrassed. It still happened but less frequently.

Just remembered a funny/disturbing story. I’m mid thirties and live close to a children’s playground. One day was taking bins out and heard ‘oi sexy!’ From eleven year old boys in the playground! As a teacher, I turned round ready to give them a lecture on harassment and heard one say ‘oh she’s old’ in a disappointed voice. It made me laugh at the time but what a shame boys think they should be showing off like that. I defy you to tell me being cat called by children is a compliment!

Men do it to intimidate. Nothing to do with looks, although attractive females would get hassled more. So not a stealth boast but rather a horrible everyday occurrence for a lot of females.

I dont think it is a stealth brag, its abusive and not directly related to how attractive you are- it's mainly about intimidation

Yy Attractive doesnt come into it. Theres that whole "pull a pig" thing...

It’s all bad, but men shouting out of cars makes me so cross. Who are they to intrude on my zen day.

I don’t know how many get it every time but it’s often enough for most to know it’s nothing to brag about. It’s harassment and unwanted.

It happend a lot to me from around 11 as I had and still do very large breast though I wouldn't say every time I left the house.

I think also it was a bad area generally for it when we lived near the same area I got men shouting from vans when out with my then young kids.

Area we're in now is generally bit more politer and generally people even men intervene more in public in a variety of situation - possible more community feeling I don't know.

I've never known any one brag about it - having experienced it myself it's very intimidating to experince.

10 years ago, when I was regularly going ‘out’, I would get groped every single time I’d go to a bar or club. Twice I was groped from the front. It was extremely upsetting.
I also once went to bed during a house party and woke up to find a random guy with his hands down my knickers.
When I talk about these incidents. It is definitely NOT a stealth brag. I sincerely hope that this behaviour isn’t still happening to young women in clubs. I had an unhealthy relationship with men and myself for years as a result of this as I felt I had no value at all.

As for groping when I go out, rarer than the catcalling but more traumatic. I remember a young lad (perhaps 12) on a bike, cycle past and grab my ass. Another random teenager grab my ass as I walked in the opposite direction. New Years eve a few years ago, waiting for my friend to buy cigarattes, random middle-aged North African man grabbed my ass then wiggled his tongue around at me. Out in clubs, various random men (sometimes who I hadn't even spoken to) grabbing my ass, grabbing me around the waist, trying to run their hands up and down my thighs. Usually when I went to the really shitty clubs because a friend wanted to go there, I'd rather go to a gig where that's never happened to my recollection. Some men think it's a good technique for pulling a woman, to just start groping her without even saying anything.

The fact that so many women on here feel they need to justify that they are 'not good looking' to ensure no one thinks they are bragging about UNWANTED HARRASSMENT is a clue to how fucked up this whole thing is and how it is about male domination and women socialised to accept it , including not moaning in case they are seen as stealth boasting

During my mid-twenties I lived in a central area reknown for strip clubs and pole dancing venues. I was harrassed every time I left my flat.

Check your internalised misogyny OP.