catcalled and groped every time I go out

[DuploTower]

Aibu reasonable to be suspicious of women who claim to be catcalled and groped every time they go out?

Or am I just too old and unattractive to know what that's like and that it does happen.

I'm certainly not saying it never happens. And if someone finds it uncomfortable or intimidating it's not OK.

But every time you go out?

Is it a bit of a stealth brag?

They must be exaggerating.

Aibu?

Between the ages of about 13 to early-mid twenties I was catcalled on pretty much a daily basis. Usually by builders and other contractors, sometimes by homeless people/beggars, groups of ‘lads’ at bus stops, that kind of thing. Not a stealth brag at all, it’s definitely not something I welcomed and it made me very uncomfortable and socially anxious. I wasn’t bad looking but I was quite plain/nerdy. I lived in hoodies, jeans and converse pretty much, so I knew full well it was probably nothing to do with the way I looked and more just these men being dickheads. I know it happened to a lot of my friends too, maybe something to do with the area we lived, I don’t know. It seemed to stop in my twenties but still occasionally happened/happens.
Groping is something that only (thankfully) happened once in a nightclub by a bouncer when I was about 19. I think I had a go at him (Dutch courage!) but was too embarrassed to report it to anyone.

It does happen. If it hasn’t happened to you you’re very lucky. It’s horrible.

Although actually one time when I would have been about 16 I remember walking into town to meet some friends and feeling pretty nervous. Can’t remember exactly what the situation was that I feeling that way. But I glanced in a shop window to make sure my hair was still in the right place and some man driving past called out of the car window something like “don’t worry, you look lovely” and that genuinely made me feel so much better. It was the way he said it. And the reason men don’t catcall like that more often is because they’re usually not trying to make us feel good (like the man in the car that day), they’re trying to make us feel like shit. And they do.

I think the reason why people don't realise how prevalent this type of behaviour is, is because women don't talk about it (probably for similar reasons to why they don't report rape).

This thread has reminded me that a fortnight ago, a man on the tube grabbed my arse as I was stepping off. Due to the throng of people around me, my shock and the fact the doors were about to close I didn't say or do anything. I also haven't mentioned it to anyone until now. I suppose I feared that as a average looking middle-aged woman, people like the OP would think I was bragging.

I also haven't mentioned the man who tried to chat me up and followed me around on the tube platform a month or so ago, who I had to change trains to avoid.

Or the man in the shopping centre who said "Sexy Lady" to me, as I walked by with shopping bags in my gym trousers and trainers.

Did I ask for all that? No.
Did it happen, yes.
Has it happen to me regularly since I was a teenager in both lesser and much, much worse forms? Yes.
Do I talk about it? Rarely.

I'm not big busted, I don't dress provocatively, I don't flirt with strangers and if I did it shouldn't make a difference.

I'm a small, average-looking, middle aged woman who regularly gets catcalled and I'm so used to it, I barely notice anymore.

Living in a city doesn't help, but just because it doesn't happen to you, don't assume it doesn't happen.

Definitely a thing, and has nothing to do with what you look like or what you are wearing. As I have got older, it has reduced thankfully, a big benefit of being in my forties! The worst experiences I had were in France in my early twenties when I lived there. It was so much more prevalent, I felt very uncomfortable and very unsafe. All my friends who lived over there at the time had the same experience, it really coloured my view of the country negatively.

@hooferdoofer37

I’m sorry that happened to you. That’s awful isn’t it? That you felt unable to say anything for fear of “bragging”. I’m large busted - have been since age 14. I hated it and tried to cover myself up for years and tended to hunch over to conceal it. Didn’t stop men making vile comments all my life. I didn’t choose to have this body and for a good 20 years of my life I felt horribly self conscious and tried to always wear baggy clothing. Then one day I was reading about Freddie Mercury whom I love! And he was encouraging people to just be themselves and that it’s ok to be who you are. Since then I wear fitted clothes ( not revealing but not baggy either) and I just think tough shit- I can’t help the way I was born so other people are just going to have to deal with it. Ironically the amount of comments I receive when wearing fitted clothes are exactly the same as when I’d try to wear baggy clothes so that goes to show clothing makes no difference.

I think the reason why people don't realise how prevalent this type of behaviour is, is because women don't talk about it (probably for similar reasons to why they don't report rape)

Absolutely. Ive told the anecdote regarding my daughter before - a helpful man on MN suggested to me that I encourage her to "dress more modestly" so that men aren't enticed to make comment.

In my late teens/early twenties I was catcalled pretty much daily just walking along in the daytime by men of all ages. And if I was on a night out I would frequently have my bottom squeezed or sometimes my breasts touched. A couple of times in nightclubs, random men have even tried to kiss me out of nowhere.
I did have a good figure back then, but my face wasn't anything special.

On nights out I've twisted many arms, slapped many faces and threaten them with reporting them for assault. But it really was relentless and unpleasant, and it happened to many of my friends too.

Sarah ** I'm sure someone will pop along soon to tell you that's really keen of him and you should take it as a compliment

I hope he gets the message ASAP and if not your able to tell a manager?

For the record, everyone of us should be able to go out stark bollock naked and not expect any harassment of the like we've talked about here.

God help the first piece of shit who looks at my DD 11, in front of me.

Yes us women and our provocative work uniforms

Sure polo shirts feature really heavily in porn searches ?

That's how I feel tell

I'll wear what I sodding like thanks . I'm not being dictated to by men with no filter or self control.

I think they feature just after orthopaedic shoes and tabards?

Women, stop getting yourselves harassed

I took my small, slim, 13yo swimming last week. She still has the body of a child - no boobs or bum to speak of, and she was dressed in a standard M&S kids swimsuit. I watched a man in his early 40s Stop and openly leer at her as she walked to the pool side. It turned my stomach. There is a small subset of men who think it’s ok to treat women like objects, and many women, particularly of my mum’s generation have been conditioned to see it as acceptable and even welcome. I remember as a teen complaining that someone had wolf whistled at me from a bus. And she replied, “You only need to worry when they stop wolf whistling”.

I remember when I was 13 walking home from a netball game on a Saturday in my pe kit. Getting called at by a grown man in a car. It's horrible.

no one finds it flattering.

Yes, like others, this was almost a normal daily occurance from 15 to about 25 for me. I wasn't anything special looks wise, just average and many times it's not even about you being attractive, often just humiliating. I will always remember walking down Sauchihall street, Glasgow, aged early 20s and about ten builders high up on a building started singing 'She' s a Barbie girl' at me, prompting lots of others to turn and look. The odd thing was I was dressed head to toe in black but admittedly did have long blonde straight hair. It was designed to humiliate/embarrass me and it did work.

Looking back, I used to get lots of attention when I was in school uniform too? So disgusting. My school only had uniform until year 11 (sixth form was own clothes) - so I was definitely too young. Grown men would honk horns, shout things from their windows, stop their car and follow me as I walked asking for my number etc, others in person would stare, make vile comments eg about my (flat) bum, ask me if I had a boyfriend then ask personal questions etc. I was a child ffs.

Even had creepy taxi drivers tell me how “gorgeous” they thought I was the entire journey and ask lots of personal questions - that’s NOT flattering, it’s fucking scary when you’re trapped in their car, i didn’t want them to know where I live so I’d get them to drop me at an adjacent road!

A girl in my year had a house party Her dad came home drunk around midnight, with his drunk friends, and they proceeded to flirt and make sleazy comments to the girls at the party...who were his daughter’s age...

And now I just got stopped by a guy with another guy in a hole and asked if I was cold...

As innocent as I'm.sure it was stopping random lone women in the dark at this time of night is surely a no no for most guys??

I remember being in Boots ( the store) a couple of years ago with DD.She would have been 14. She was just wandering around, looking at make up, I was wandering around, looking at other stuff....
I clocked some bloke watching her.....he was in his 40s, and obviously didn't realise she was with me. So I followed him and kept an eye on him. She was completely unaware of him,but every time she went down an aisle, he would appear at the other end,pretending to look at stuff. Unbeknown to me, my husband had also entered the shop( he was waiting outside) ,and had also clocked this bloke. So when he appeared at the end of one of the aisles that DD was in, hubby wandered up next to him, called him a filthy pervert and told him to fuck off out of the shop or he'd help him to leave!
DD is 16 now, has a part time job in a chippy and gets propositioned in there regularly. The other night, some bloke waited in the queue and when he got to the front, he told DD that she was 'boner material ' then walked out! He literally queued just to say that to her!

It does happen a lot until you perfect your scary face.

My favourite was while reading a book on a bus.
Idiot grabbed it from me, asking what I was reading and if it had any good sex bits in it.

It was a biography of Germaine Greer

In my 30s I was considered very attractive and sexy looking (she said modestly ) with long dark wavy hair. I lived in London and went out regularly. I was constantly leered at, groped, propositioned and even once offered "£100 for an hour of your time" as I walked home from the tube one evening in South Kensington.

It slowed in my 40s. Now I'm 63 and overweight so am left alone, thank God.

Oh and one time on my way to the station (going to work so 8.30am ish) there was a man standing near the station entrance who said "I want to fuck you" as I walked past. At 8.30am!!

DD is 16 now, has a part time job in a chippy and gets propositioned in there regularly. The other night, some bloke waited in the queue and when he got to the front, he told DD that she was 'boner material ' then walked out! He literally queued just to say that to her!

In front of a queue of people? What the hell is going on in these people's heads?

The world is a harsh place & we can’t protect them for ever - DD is 9 ffs and she has already experienced it ! This thread should be a wake up call to all of us raising boys.

@exiledfromcornwall
Yep, in front of a queue of people! Her workmates actually said " What the fuck???...." because he heard it too!

Happened all the time when I was about 15-25, now that I'm in my 30s it happens very rarely.

I clearly remember the first time, I was 15, a car pulled over as I was waiting at a crowded bus stop and a couple of men offered me to get in to have fun, what shocked me the most though, was some dude at the bus stop encouraging me to do so!

I am introverted and find unwanted attention terrifying.

On twitter today I just saw Nicole bedera @Nbedera has some really good advice for parents. She is an academic who studies masculinity and sexual violence in the US. What she is saying makes you think.