AIBU to tell my 19 year old she has destroyed my mental health?

[Applepea1]

Yeah I know I probably am, she's my daughter, she's a teenager, she's vulnerable. But for the last few years everything has revolved around her, school issues, friendship issues, anxiety issues, we put everything in to her going to Uni last year and then she didn't go, plan was to save money and go this year. She's saved no money and she's just lost her (dead end) job, apparently because she's no longer needed but I think the persistent lateness, unreliability and rudeness can not have helped. I'm not with her dad and my partner doesn't really get involved. So the last few years I've gone downhill, so much crying and screaming (to myself) I am always a pretty anxious person anyway but now I am thinking about suicide a lot. The only thing stopping me is my younger child, I no longer care much about anyone else.
This afternoon I've scheduled a 'chat about the future'. Should I tell her how I really am or continue to try and be supportive and cry it out later? I actually feel like she's been abusing me, she's gets so rude, shouts, tells me I'm stupid and crazy, everything I do is wrong etc.

I was just coming on here to suggest the same thing Beetroot. To move away from the op's specific case, is it not possible that a teen's behaviour can impacted negatively on a parent's (usually the mother's) mh ?

Obviously, one wouldn't want to burden a teen with that knowledge, ever, but why is it so beyond the realms of possibility?

... It is interesting to read how many posters on here have been told that their behaviour as a teen has had a negative effect on the mental health of one of their parents... could that be because it was true?

I think this is a bit of a taboo subject tbh. Mothers often do seem to take the brunt emotionally. And whereas one can generally whinge a bit about sleep deprivation or tantrums during the baby or toddler stage and expect to receive a reasonable amount of sympathy and understanding, I think mothers tend to receive more judgement and blame than understanding, when their relationship with a teen goes a bit Pete Tong.

I'm not ashamed to admit that for me personally, adolescence has been much more challenging than any other stage of parenting and I don't have any serious mh issues that I know of (I used to have panic attacks when I was younger and I still experience anxiety symptoms at times but nothing severe).

Or is the consensus here that it is only mothers with mh issues themselves whose adolescent offspring behave in a challenging way?

I realise this is a sensitive issue as none of us would like to feel responsible for passing down mh issues to our dc.

I have a suspicion that many parents (with or without mh issues) find negotiating their dcs' teen years more challenging than they care to admit in public. But I'd be interested to know what other parents of teens think... .

It may well impact the parents but that doesn't mean they should go around telling / blaming the teen though. I guess both should seek help elsewhere - blaming helps no-one

Apart from the basics of food, shelter, medical care, it is DD's responsibility to decide if she really "needs" more money than that, and if so to figure out how to get it. That's her incentive.

But those things aren't a given - she is at the age where she needs to understand that adults have to pay for food, shelter and medical care themselves and can't just opt out of working. Obviously some parents still choose to provide those things past the age of 18, but generally not indefinitely or with the message that choosing not to work because she doesn't feel like it is a viable option. Especially when they're being ungrateful and rude about it.

These ‘move out’ posts make me laugh

Where is she supposed to go?

I also think that parents MH can impact on the teen - definitely did for me. Not having a stable base can be hard

Op being subject to verbal abuse like that will have an impact in mental health. She does need to know what impact it’s having. If she doesn’t she’ll go through life thinking it’s ok. You do not have to put up with this.

OP, it is not that clear how severe your daughter's problem behaviors really are, and how much is your own emotional state....

Honestly, university/ job uncertainty at that age is utterly normal and no reason for a parent's mental health to be affected severely. You have also mentioned rudeness, and absolutely that needs to be addressed.... but you have not been very specific about what she does/ says or how persistently... so it's a little hard to measure whether your upset is proportionate.

I am not sure your sense that your daughter 'is causing' your anguish/ suicidal thoughts helps you (and certainly won't be helping her). More often, parents pass on mental health issues to their children unfortunately.

I agree with others that you should concentrate on your own wellbeing. I am sure this in turn will help your daughter with her anxiety.

These posts saying be super human don’t let verbal abuse and supporting a mentally ill adult have any impact and don’t tell her to move out make me laugh. She’s not super human.

These 'move out 'posts make me laugh .. where is she supposed to go?

Yes good question I know it would'nt improve my mental health if my dc was 'on the streets'.

If a mother is too closely involved with a child and depends on them for their own emotional happiness, then the two are dependent on each other. There isn't enough healthy separateness there is only fighting and the threat of abandonment and loss of love which creates fear.
The mother takes up a scolding, controlling role telling them what to do 'what you NEED to do is X Y and Z' or 'what you SHOULD do is A, B and C', nag, nag, nag after ALL I HAVE DONE FOR YOU AND THIS IS HOW YOU REPAY ME!!!!, then the teenager retreats back to feeling like they are a younger child again and cannot make a decision of their own. Yeah, we've all been there.
It's a double-bind situation and the teenager ends up feeling 'stuck' and can't move on.
The teenager cannot feel they can make a decision on their own, yet they don't want to relinquish control to the controlling mother.
So they end up neither having their own will - nor being able to accept anyone else's instructions.
Try to use the word 'Could' instead - or instead of giving instructions, ask they what they would like to do themselves.

I had a similar issue when DS was late teens, early 20s. I refrained from blaming him but made it clear as an adult he needed to start to support himself.
It backfired, he didn't 'step up' , he stole to fund himself. So when posters say a DC will sort themselves they may not do it the way posters on here suggest or you want.

Ultimately OP , do you want a relationship with your DD? If your MH is so badly effected it maybe a case of 'distant; support' and LC until she matures.

How do you think that will help her get her act together ?
For all you know her mental health is suffering too.....

I said I'd like her to be at university or in a proper job and paying rent or have moved out by October.

How do you define a "proper job", OP? Is your definition something she can realistically get as an unqualified 19yo? If not, you are just setting her up to fail.

And speaking as a university lecturer, please don't bully her into going to university just because she has to be seen to be doing something "proper". We see so many young people struggle, some fail, some even die. University isn't the right fit for everyone and it isn't always the right fit at the precise age your dd is at.

I think you have to accept that not going to university is a valid path, but that this will almost certainly mean a few years when she can't realistically afford to move from home because starting salaries for the unqualified are low until they have worked their way up. Telling a young person that they are a failure unless they magically manage to skip this bit really isn't going to help.

With ds, all we said was you have to carry on looking until you have a job.

Also- what about things that are neither a job or uni? Apprenticeships, for instance, or shorter courses?

OMG no, don't do that, She's 19, something is not right in her life at the moment, could she be suffering from anxiety and depression? Can you talk to her about it and maybe suggest going to the GP? You need to take a breath, try to sort her out and be supportive, and visit your own GP, but separate your issues from hers. Please don't blame her for everything, she needs support. I feel for you though, I've had a bloody awful teen daughter with those issues too - it has been hideous, She's at Uni now, but it did take a diagnosis of ADHD when she was 17 to put the pieces of the puzzle together about her impulsive behaviour, rudeness, anxiety, disorganisation, friendship problems and lack of motivation - she was a nightmare and still struggles with some things, but much better now. Once we knew what was behind it all, it was easier for everyone to deal with and to move forward. I really disliked her at one point, but now everything has changed, Find out what her problems are and try to help her sort them out,x

No please don't tell her, teenagers can be hard work and are often self absorbed . I have 4 so.you have my sympathy I feel, they play tag with each other to keep.me in a permanent state if stress and anxiety!! But personally I hated my teenage years and I think it's just a difficult time between child and adult.
Bare with her, encourage her, try not to put her down, build her up. You may both be prone to anxiety, maybe go to GP, medication and or counselling can really help.

I think your dd probably knows her behaviour isn’t nice but the way it comes out is a cry for help.

I sit down regularly with my children just as a catch up on where they are going, if they are struggling with something or finding a way forward.

It is something that we have always done from when they were little.

You would be surprised at how worried children and teens can be over something that is minor or just needing fresh eyes on how to get to where they need to be.

I think Applepea1 that you are imposing your views on your dd and not tackling what she wants.

University or a proper job comes across as very overbearing

Does your dd know what she wants to do as a career?

I found until dc actually knew that then you are wasting time and can’t put in place a plan forward.

I think before anything she needs to know what she wants to ultimately do.

Shoe horning her into a university course or a full time office job is just going to make her feel more depressed and this will pass on to you

Echoing Orangeblossom78 and PaulHollywoodsSexGut, my mother did the same and we are now estranged.

Proceed with caution.

@ppeatfruit

Gee There has been research which shows that the brain is not fully developed till late 20s (or older) she is 19 but she is NOT an adult; teenagers are well known for pushing boundaries, sleeping late, being pains etc etc. it's part of growing up and in some cases it takes longer than in others. I'm not saying it's easy, it is just what it is.

I agree with this.

My DD didn't sort of start to act like a grown up IYSWIM til maybe 22-23. Even at uni she was a little bit flaky and irresponsible, and a little bit flighty. I mean, she managed her academic studies and went to her part time job (sometimes!) but she was a bit flaky at times.

She would think nothing of asking us to pick her up from the station at 5pm (fair enough there is no bus to our house,) but it was 30 to 35 minutes drive to the station, (at the time.) A few times she missed her train, and forgot to let us know she had got one 40 minutes later. So we'd be sitting there at 5pm, and she didn't get off the train.

So we'd ring her and say 'where ARE you?' 'Oh!' she would say 'I missed the 3.30pm train had to get the 4.10pm one. So we'd sit there three quarters of an hour waiting for her! It wasn't worth going home, so we wasted our time. (I know we should have told her to get herself home! But we could never bring ourselves to do it.)

She also forgot our birthdays for a couple of years in a row AND one mother's day. I know it sounds like a first world problem, but we found it hurtful.

She would also ask us to come pick her up from her friend's house (when she was 14-15,) at say, 4pm. So we would go up to the town at 2.30pm as we only needed an hour and a half to do what we needed to do, and she would text (at 3.40pm) and say 'can you get me at 5.30pm instead?' So we were done - with what we needed to do - by 4pm as we planned, but had to hang round til 5.30pm as she moved the goalposts/changed her mind!

Again, it wasn't worth us going home, as it would have taken 25 minutes - then 25 minutes back! So we'd have got home, and just had 35-40 minutes sit down, and then have to go back out to get her!

I know. MUGS we were. But after the first 4 or 5 times, we started saying 'NO, you said 4pm, and that is the time we have tailored our time out for, so it's 4pm, OR your friend's parents can bring you home.' She reluctantly said 'all right then! I will be ready for 4!'

And as I said, her flakiness and pissing us about (sometimes) carried on into her college and uni days.

But by 22-23, she was like a different person. Totally thoughtful, kind, generous, reliable, dependable, hardworking, empathic, and great fun to be around.

I think you have to accept that not going to university is a valid path

This in 99point bold letters.

I could have written this.

No, you absolutely shouldn't tell her that. She may be a rude entitled lazy child but she's still your child. Her anxiety issues are the key. She's not doing it to hurt you (though it feels like it). She's feeling terrible inside and probably does everything she can to avoid facing up to that. Everything horrible she says to you is more likely actually what she feels about herself.

Here's what saved me.
Get counselling for yourself - someone down to earth, with a practical focus, not just 'talk about your feelings'. It will strengthen you and give you some insight into how you bounce off each other. If you are stronger emotionally, she will not be able to target you so easily. You will learn to let it wash over you. It will cost off course but do anything you can to find that money, maybe once a fortnight fo a while.
I would also recommend some antidepressants for a short while if you are so low that you have thought about suicide. They helped me. Do not be afraid to talk to your doctor honestly about how you are feeling. They hear stories like this all the time, you will not be judged.

Also have a read about Borderline Personality Disorder. Some of it may ring true, but also there is lots of advice about how to handle people with dysfunctional behaviour that upsets you. You may not be able to change her behaviour, but you can change how you react to it!

Good luck

It's not wrong though to tell her that you are struggling yourself and also not wrong to draw and maintain healthy boundaries for yourself.

This.

Imagine that you both had the flu and couldn't support eachother, but we're making eachother worse.

It's possible you're locked in an unhealthy relationship and some emotional distance will be healthy for both. As professional help.

Basically, I think the path forward is to set out that there are certain things you expect her to do (carry on until she finds a new job) and other things you expect her not to do (be rude, be unkind) but beyond basic kindness you do not have expectations she has to live up to as to who she should be.

In these days of constant pressure and mums comparing themselves, it is so easy to get mixed up and start thinking of a "dead end job" or not very fixed career plans or mental health issues as some kind of moral failing. They're not. Being unkind is a moral failing, being dishonest is a moral failing, sweeping floors and cleaning toilets or suffering from crippling anxiety is not.

These ‘move out’ posts make me laugh Where is she supposed to go?

Well when my sibling and mother displayed the same toxic dynamic in my family (scarily so, to the point where accusations of killing herself was screamed about during yet another tit for tat argument)... I got to 17 and moved out. A flea infested bedsit that took up a huge percentage of my small wages was better than being in the middle of their anger and resentment and accusations.

There are other siblings here; it'll fuck them up more if there isn't a line where the op says "this isn't healthy for any of us; let's look at getting your own setup"..that line sounds like it was crossed a while ago.

Sharing a bedsit, renting a room, lodging,uni accomodation, fucking couch surfing - you name it, it'll be better than the mental health destruction being referred to here. I did it without any parental help, financial or emotional or logistically... The op can support.

Twillow She may be acting like one but she is not a child, she is 19. She could be married and have children or be serving in the Armed Forces in a battle zone. 19 year olds are adults

I disagree with nearly everyone / most on this thread.

I think telling a difficult child that they have affected your MH, is perfectly ok.

Many parents I know, myself included, are relatively grounded, come from a totally loving and supportive childhood, have never had any MH issues, and then have a difficult / ASD child, that utterly utterly breaks them.

Are we supposed to pretend that the parent has MH issues for some other reason? Nope. It's the child that causes it.

Especially if you also have other dc that are totally easy!!