To think she should follow the rules?

[suchameanie]

I’m preparing to get flamed here I really am!
Anyway, friend has 2 girls. Ever since they were tiny she has let them choose their own outfits, put together any combo they like, wear clothes far too big or small, shoes 4 times too big or so small their toes are scrunched up and even her clothes or DHs clothes.
Fair enough, she believes kids should express themselves. I’m very anal about what my kids wear and I think it gives off a good impression if they are clean, tiny, in properly fitting shoes and clothes, but that’s entirely my choice!
An average day would be her 8 year old daughter wearing red leggings, pink skirt, odd socks pulled up over the leggings, perhaps her mums jumper or cardie and her feet squeezed into her 5 year old sisters shoes. Not a look I’d allow, but not my circus, not my monkeys!
Anyway, my main bug bear at the moment is the kids doing uniformed activities.
Tonight at ballet her daughter had on Cinderella leggings, underneath a swimming costume. When she goes to school she’ll wear some uniform, but often flouts the rules and will wear say a red sparkly t-shirt under her pinafore, or rainbow tights.
They’ve taken a photo of the ballet class tonight to put on social media, and all the students look impeccable in matching uniform, except for friends daughter in her Cinderella leggings and swimming costume.
I don’t know why it annoys me so much, but it does!
My kids ask if they can wear rainbow tights to school etc as their friend does and I refuse. It just makes my mornings harder as they want to match their friend.
My friend thinks it looks quirky and that her DD will probably be a fashion designer, but truthfully she just looks scruffy when everyone else is wearing the same thing.
What are your thoughts?

I don’t know why it annoys me so much, but it does!

Let me alleviate that particular area of puzzlement. You are a joyless control freak who is irked because you are so insecure you worry about your small children 'making a good impression' (on whom, for God's sake?) and your friend missed that particular memo.

My seven year old goes to a school that doesn't wear uniform. The children there are just as well-behaved, confident and articulate as the ones at his previous school, a deeply trad C of E school where uniform was policed quite strictly.

“Not my circus/monkeys”

And yet here you are, moaning away and being bothered by it

it would annoy me because I have to spend my money buying the correct school uniform and dance uniform but others can do what they like because they are 'unique'. Rules are rules

it would annoy me because I have to spend my money buying the correct school uniform and dance uniform but others can do what they like because they are 'unique'. Rules are rules

And if it were your school or your dance class, you would have the right to enforce those rules, or not, as you saw fit. But what the OP is essentially whingeing about is 'How come she gets away with this stuff and NO ONE GIVES ME ANY CREDIT FOR THE FACT THAT MY CHILDREN ARE IMPECCABLY NEAT AND HAVE NAME LABELS IN THEIR PERFECTLY-MATCHING UNDERWEAR???'

So not only are u posting about it you're not the only one .... you sound mean girl n bitchy now, and a bit of a bully.. do you tut n say well look at them this time , no better than they should be etc etc
Who made you in charge of what people wear ?

Hope your DC aren't ever mocked for not dressing/being how a random group of other people think they should be...

"It just makes my mornings harder as they want to match their friend."

That's your problem, not the other parent's.

My kids aren’t impeccably neat, or designer! Mainly supermarket stuff and hand me downs!
But they are in clothes that fit, are clean, season suitable and don’t look like scarecrows!
Anyway, I’m done ranting.
Was just that once again my daughter was asking why she can’t wear what she wants to ballet classes when her friend wears whatever she likes!
Funnily enough a letter was sent home at the start of term, specifying the uniform for ballet and that hair must be in a bun and that they don’t like pupils wearing ballet shoes that aren’t from a proper dance shop.
Obviously this letter didn’t apply to friend!

Is it more important that the ballet line up all look impeccable in their pale pink ballet dresses and wrap cardigans or that the kids enjoy the dancing?

There are many ways to make first impressions.

One aspect of living in Holland that I loved was the randomness of fashions. People wore what they wanted (including to weddings and funerals) and no one batted an eyelid or commented. They are very sociable in family and friendship groups and that matters more to them than image.

Coiffing your kids is far less important than you think it is OP

don’t look like scarecrows

I'm glad you're done OP. Inviting people to slate your 'friend' and being thoroughly unkind about a pair of young children on a public forum is - in my book - considerably less civilized than wearing flowery flip flops to a summer wedding.

You should forget how astonishingly wonderful it is that your children are 'neat and tidy' and maybe work on more meaningful things.

I think out of the two you, your friend is setting a better example. Rather creatively dressed and kind, than neat, correct and mean.

Of course it’s stupid attention seeking on the mothers part. There is a happy medium between letting children look like scarecrows and micromanaging the last sock and hair bobble
This is very true.
Most people manage just fine in the middle whilst people at either extreme are looking for attention and kudos for people to think/say:
oh wow aren't you all so quirky and unique and special... It's totally awesome how your child wears rainbow leggings, their dad's hoody and haven't washed or brushed their hair in a week. Aren't you so free spirited and embracing their creativity
Or
oh wow. You're so organized. I just about keep on top of my laundry and ironing is a necessary evil. You're so wonderful and I'm in awe of how your children's outfits are meticulously coordinated. Your attention to detailbis admirable. I'd love to be the sort of person who matches their hair clips to their sock bows.

Funnily enough a letter was sent home at the start of term, specifying the uniform for ballet and that hair must be in a bun and that they don’t like pupils wearing ballet shoes that aren’t from a proper dance shop.
Obviously this letter didn’t apply to friend!

Why are you so incensed that the ballet school isn't enforcing uniform rules? Is it so personally hurtful to you that you don't get a gold star for obedience?

You must spend large parts of your life incensed as other people infringe minor rules -- don't wait for the green man, wear navy and black together, put down the till conveyor belt dividers the wrong way round, wrap birthday presents in leftover Christmas paper etc etc.

people at either extreme are looking for attention and kudos

I find it odd that several people have said this. I'm not an 'extreme' incidentally, but I know people who are. They like handmade, natural, eclectic stuff, look a bit different to most other parents. Their children are similar, whilst being lovely, polite, happy children. They're just living their lives. They are as far from 'show-offs' or attention-seeking as you can be.

I think it's perfectly possible that some people do seek a reaction, but absolutely not all, by any means.

Why are you so incensed that the ballet school isn't enforcing uniform rules? Is it so personally hurtful to you that you don't get a gold star for obedience?

The OP has already explained that her kids find it confusing that they have to follow the rules but the other children don't.

So not personally hurtful, but irritating to have your attempts at teaching your kids basic discipline undermined.

Why are you so incensed that the ballet school isn't enforcing uniform rules? Is it so personally hurtful to you that you don't get a gold star for obedience?
It's not about getting a gold star. It's that it's irritating in life when people think the rules don't apply to them, everyone gets reminders of rules/expectations and yet cheeky fuckers still do what they like.

E.g.
Start time at work is 9am. One colleague is always arriving at 5 past. They're always late and disorganised. Reminders are given in general about punctuality. Everyone who is on time knows who the issue is but they don't get challenged directly.

It's the same with children. If you talk to secondary students about the "general reminders" for behaviour it pisses them off because the well behaved, polite students would be well behaved and polite anyway and those who are rude and badly behaved don't care about the reminders.

Unfortunately some people lack the maturity and sense to know that they're not some unique exception to rules and lack the ability to see that following simple rules isn't being blindly obedient. In my experience the people who complain and think rules don't apply to them usually aren't as critically aware or intelligent as they think they are. The best critical thinkers I've met in students have the maturity and intellect to understand how to challenge ideas and manage to do that without insisting they need to swap their school jumper for a rainbow glitter hoody whilst saying "but whhhhhyyyyy...."

You're stretching it a bit Lola. People late for work impact other people. Kids in non regulation ballet gear don't (except for ruining the impeccable photo op )

Start time at work is 9am. One colleague is always arriving at 5 past. They're always late and disorganised. Reminders are given in general about punctuality. Everyone who is on time knows who the issue is but they don't get challenged directly.

But if this is actually impacting on your work in that you have to pick up the slack for someone else's lateness and disorganisation, take it up with your line manager, surely? I think that's an entirely legitimate complaint if it's having an impact on your life. I don't think it's equivalent to someone else's children not following uniform rules at a ballet class, or dressing messily.

What pisses you off more - that they're dressed like this or that your own daughter is now questioning the strict rules you follow?
Looks like your own household isn't that nice middle-class conform anyway as you would like to imagine and the trigger for your post wasn't that she is flouting the rules but that your own children now envy those kids.
Some of the best school systems in the world don't enforce uniform and children can wear whatever they like.
Are they're clean, do they have a daily hygiene routine?
You failed to answer this question yet.

Performance of students at Mossbourne academy in Hackney was turned around and a substantial reason was raising of standards: including adherence to uniform policy.

Or maybe its attitude to taking those awful inconvenient pupils with special educational needs ...

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/22/academies-pupils-special-educational-needs
www.theguardian.com/education/2012/aug/20/academy-loses-challenge-special-needs

I've sat in meetings where a parent has sat next to their child and outright lied to staff about the facts (eg. Branded trainers are not trainers / leggings are absolutely trousers / UGG boots are school shoes)

And what an utter waste of everyone's time. Meetings to talk about shoes? Seriously?

thinchinaforhottea
It's an attitude issue and it's an attitude that is developed from a young age

Some people think they (or their children) are so much more unique and special than anyone else and because of their specialness they are exempt from rules and expectations that apply to everyone else.

If the ballet teacher doesn't mind what their pupils wear then they should get rid of the uniform and replace it with a policy of "wear what you like that's comfy but this is what we suggest".

What's actually happening here is they have a policy, expect parents to follow it and kit their children out accordingly, care enough about it to send reminder letters out about the uniform, but then allow the person who thinks they're above the rules to do what they like. It's unfair on all the other children/ parents

I'm a teacher and feel the same in my job. What the ballet teacher is doing is essentially the same as reminding the whole year group about the expectations at lunch (as queuing / put trays away / rubbish in bin) when most students do it right and the staff on duty watch a minority leave their crap all over the place and do nothing. Eventually students start wondering why the minority get away with it and they start to lose respect for the staff who say one thing and do the opposite

8yo seems a bit too old for that kind of mish-mash outfits - they're not toddlers.
That said, if they can get away with is - good for them.

Ill fitting shoes is wrong but I couldn’t get het up over mismatched outfits at all. One of my DD’s is incredibly ‘expressive’ shall we say, she really does throw together the most eccentric and eclectic combinations. I love it though personally, think she looks great.

I make them wear school uniform though because thems the rules and I do hate seeing kids turn up wearing trainers (not black) and patterned tights. I always just think it’s not hard to buy school shoes and grey tights ffs, the rest of us do...

Again though Lola, the examples you cite disadvantage others and are about behaviour and discipline. If the ballet school believe perfectly turned out 8yo kids in tutus and hair buns is important then they'd refuse admission to the kid who didn't dress like this.

My son always wore school uniform and shoes complied with policy however he had a penchant for colour patterned socks when the rules say plain. At this stage he was in secondary school so old enough to police himself so I let it go. One occasion a teacher noticed his loud socks and pointed out they should be plain. He's a polite well behaved kid so just said "But Miss, it's just a pair of socks". She agreed and from then let the socks go

I went to a school that encouraged kids to dress as they liked, provided there were no H&S risks and suitable clothes were worn for phys ed and stuff. It meant that there were no pointless meetings to discuss shoes, no arguments about whether a top was regulation or not, and the kids could learn feeling comfortable and relaxed.

It was a great school. Great results, lots of positivity and turned out students who had the benefit of being treated with respect and as individuals from a young age (the ethos went further than just clothes). Most of my ex-schoolies managed to still become hard-working adults who know how to turn up to work on time and be responsible members of society

I was lucky - I know few schools are like this, but it's why I do struggle to understand why so many people are convinced that uniforms are so vital. As I said upthread, this country seems to place bottomless amounts of faith in putting kids into uniforms.

I hear the arguments, but I'm far from convinced it's quite as essential as people believe.