To think she should follow the rules?

[suchameanie]

I’m preparing to get flamed here I really am!
Anyway, friend has 2 girls. Ever since they were tiny she has let them choose their own outfits, put together any combo they like, wear clothes far too big or small, shoes 4 times too big or so small their toes are scrunched up and even her clothes or DHs clothes.
Fair enough, she believes kids should express themselves. I’m very anal about what my kids wear and I think it gives off a good impression if they are clean, tiny, in properly fitting shoes and clothes, but that’s entirely my choice!
An average day would be her 8 year old daughter wearing red leggings, pink skirt, odd socks pulled up over the leggings, perhaps her mums jumper or cardie and her feet squeezed into her 5 year old sisters shoes. Not a look I’d allow, but not my circus, not my monkeys!
Anyway, my main bug bear at the moment is the kids doing uniformed activities.
Tonight at ballet her daughter had on Cinderella leggings, underneath a swimming costume. When she goes to school she’ll wear some uniform, but often flouts the rules and will wear say a red sparkly t-shirt under her pinafore, or rainbow tights.
They’ve taken a photo of the ballet class tonight to put on social media, and all the students look impeccable in matching uniform, except for friends daughter in her Cinderella leggings and swimming costume.
I don’t know why it annoys me so much, but it does!
My kids ask if they can wear rainbow tights to school etc as their friend does and I refuse. It just makes my mornings harder as they want to match their friend.
My friend thinks it looks quirky and that her DD will probably be a fashion designer, but truthfully she just looks scruffy when everyone else is wearing the same thing.
What are your thoughts?

She sounds awesome and my dd, also 8 has similar taste in clothes

But I do insist on uniforms when necessary, ie school, brownies etc. It's not so much about the uniform itself, but it's showing that sometimes you do have to toe the line in life. It might not be right or fair but it's the way the world is.

It's a bit like someone coming for a customer facing role with ripped jeans and a sweatshirt with a rude slogan on it. Ok they shouldn't, in theory be discriminated against, but human nature means it will go against them in those types of roles. The same as I'd never put someone smelly, or dirty in front of a customer.

By all means be yourself, but some circumstances do mean you may have to kerb yourself - but I do want the tights and swimming costume combie

Allowing ill-fitting shoes is really terrible and lazy parenting

Are you sure u are her friend?
Should friends not be supportive of each other ?

That's disgraceful. Effectively the school is saying that its obsession with uniform is more important than educating children
What it's saying is that rules apply to everyone.

I've worked in uniform and non uniform schools. I'd happily send my child to a non uniform school and have no strong feelings either way on uniform, but what I would say from working in schools is that unfortunately there's a substantial number of parents and children who think rules, however simple, don't apply to them.

I've sat in meetings where a parent has sat next to their child and outright lied to staff about the facts (eg. Branded trainers are not trainers / leggings are absolutely trousers / UGG boots are school shoes) Unsurprisingly the parent lying and arguing with school over everything was an attitude passed to the children.

Equally, in schools where that sort of attitude is more common, uniform policies tend to be a lot tighter because of the endless issues with parents / students thinking rules are optional. It also goes hand in hand with ideas like expecting basic respect and manners in the classroom is Draconian and "I won't teach my child blind obedience".

In schools where the students are well mannered, polite, where parents understand simple rules and don't demand to see the head claiming their child was given a detention "just for asking a question", unsurprisingly it's a much more pleasant environment. Interestingly, contrary to the cries on here of conformity and blind obedience, the students are more vocal, more critically aware, more open for challenging ideas, they just use it effectively and don't ruin everyone else's learning arguing that they are too special to wear a pair of black trousers

When DD was around 4 maybe 5 years old she couldn't decide if she want to wear trainers or hi-tops one day, so she wore one of each...did i care? Nope not a bit. 20+ years later she has to wear a uniform for her job...she rebels by wearing odd socks and mismatched hair bands. Just let it go OP how other peoples children dress is none of your concern and vice versa.

you sound mean spirited and sort of jealous to an extent... seriously what is it that bothers you about what a child wears to a ballet class or in a photo?

is it because the child stands out more than the other DC? I dont really get it - does it mean your kids look worse? no, does it affect how they dance ? no
how can it spoil a photo -they are children - you want a photo of your dc in their kit take one..... if the school dont mind why should you?

in non school/cubs/scouts formal scenarios my dc wear what they want - i probably buy 95% of the clothes - my only insistence is that they are clean...as they get older they choose more of the volumme of clothes and eventually they will get money and choose it all but they hate shopping so far so happy to just pick off the screen..

I dont get this up tightness about clothes..... on the very rare slightly more formal occasions we go to I may suggest they wear one of their slightly smarter tops or possibly a shirt - but at the end of the day it doesnt really matter...

she may not be trying to be 'cool' she may not just have the same view as you ....have a look at yourself and maybe a think about why it bothers you so much?

What's wrong with how she decides to dress? The only problem here, is wearing clothes that don't fit.

I let my DD wear traditional African clothing. Wonder what you would say about that

What are your thoughts?

I'd worry about the child's foot development in shoes that were too small but I'd leave the whole thing to the school and ballet teachers to deal with.

Not my circus.

My friend thinks it looks quirky and that her DD will probably be a fashion designer

Bless.

Lots of friends of mine work in fashion one started really early herself and is now incredibly senior creative person in a company

Of course it’s stupid attention seeking on the mothers part. There is a happy medium between letting children look like scarecrows and micromanaging the last sock and hair bobble.

Bear in mind that if you’d posted as the other mother the replies would have been very different.

Meh I wouldn't want my kids wearing ill fitting clothes and shoes and I do make sure they wear their uniform bit couldn't get worked up about other kids not.

I don’t know why it annoys me so much. I don’t think it’s the clothes so much, just the ignoring of rules that everyone else manages to follow.
I’m not the only person to mention it so I know I’m not being a complete bitch!
They were guests at a wedding in the summer and the girls were allowed to choose their own outfits. One chose a Christmas party dress, Elsa from Frozen patterned leggings underneath and some pink flip flops with huge flowers stuck on the front.
Friend was walking around smiling and saying how creative her daughters are when people were commenting on the unusual outfit choices.

At a wedding it wouldnt really bother me. We went to a wedding in the summer and out of 5 or 6 young boys there my DS was the only one not to be in a suit.he wore a polo shirt and shorts and trainers. he wasn't part of the bridal party and I didnt see the point of buying something that a)he didnt like b) would be too hot c) would be uncomfortable d) he would likely never wear again. AFAIK noone had a problem with it or if they started a thread on MN about it, I didnt know about it

It’s not really how she dresses her kids (or she lets them dress themselves) but the stupid and naive notion behind it that it will make children creative, independent and this way they will express themselves. No, it just makes them look like unkempt oddballs and the objects of gossip.
In my experience these are the kind of parents who are also flexible on their kids personal hygiene and don’t brush their hair if the little snots are protesting, or they don’t have to have a bath if they don’t feel like it. Yuck!

My eldest DS(11) very often looks like he has dressed n the dark. I would love it if this was him expressing his individuality, but he's just a lazy little sod who throws on the first thing he sees. If we're going somewhere that requires him to look smart, I leave some 'suggestions' on his bed which he happily puts on, as it saves him opening a drawer. The rest of the time, I just let him get on with it. The only time I think he was truly expressing himself and making an active choice was when he wore fancy dress everywhere we went. He still has the odd phase of that, even at 11.

So, anyway, never mind what someone else does. Her kids might grow up saying 'I can't believe you LET me wear that' and yours might grow up saying 'I can't believe you MADE me wear that'. Or maybe nobody will care either way.

This sounds like my daughter, she would wear my cardigans and put on a lanyard and pretend to be a teacher!
I have no issue with any of this accept all children where possible should wear correct uniform.

The shoes thing is going to damage their feet

It's all about moderation, isn't it? OP, you say yourself that you are "anal" about this and you are: why the hell does it matter if a child's clothes don't co-ordinate perfectly? This is YOUR problem.

My PIL are very like this: controlling, over-anxious about small details, judgemental and joyless. My DH and his siblings grew up in an atmosphere which (from what they have said) sounds more like a military encampment. Perhaps not surprisingly, one of his siblings reacted to this by having virtually no rules or expectations at all for HER children. These children never had bedtimes even when they were toddlers. They'd be absolutely exhausted, in tears etc at 10, 11 o'clock at night because, apparently, "Parents shouldn't be deciding when their children need to sleep." They were never expected to sit at the table for a meal and ate almost everything in front of a screen. They were never expected to do any chores. And so on. And guess what? These children are now in their 20s and have both lost several jobs in a row because they can't cope with any rules or expectations being placed upon them.

So poor parenting can take many forms.

Letting a child wear shoes that don't fit is definitely neglect. Just as bad as allowing a child not to brush his/her teeth.

I don’t know why it annoys me so much, but it does!

My thoughts? You might take on board the old saying "Comparison is the thief of joy"

It's a waste of your precious energy & headspace to be so obsessed with what someone else is doing.

What do you suffer by her actions? It would seem to me, absolutely nothing

What I see here is a control freak itching to force someone else's kid into their neat retentive ways.

None of your biz!

This reminds me of a neighbour who I overheard trying to make her daughter get in the car wearing her angel wings and wellies.
"Mummy it looks silly"
"It looks cool come on get in the car"

It's all for show. That's why it's annoying. I'm a quirky liberal parent look at me. Tedious.

Most kids, given the chance, will wear what makes them happy, what they think looks good and what floats their boat. Just because it is not colour coordinated or perfectly matching doesn't matter to them..and rightly so. They don't put too much thought into it if they are not "coached" into what looks "acceptable", they just go with their gut.

I cannot for the life of me understand why this would be an issue for anyone especially when it is not your child who is wearing the colourful attire but someone else's.

There are so many more important attributes that a child can have than the ability or desire to adhere to a set of rules to dress conservatively to please others in the morning. Are they kind? Are they funny? Are they helpful? Are they polite? And most of all...are they happy? If they were ticking all those boxes they are doing pretty ok in my book and most probably rocking Cinderella Leggings and a swimsuit to boot.

I'd find it mildly irritating too - everyone else has to follow the rules but your friend thinks she's too good to.

That said, if the school/activities don't enforce the uniform then there is absolutely nothing you can do except get over it!

They were guests at a wedding in the summer and the girls were allowed to choose their own outfits. One chose a Christmas party dress, Elsa from Frozen patterned leggings underneath and some pink flip flops with huge flowers stuck on the front

And...what?

Friend was walking around smiling and saying how creative her daughters are when people were commenting on the unusual outfit choices

So? Walking around smiling and saying that her kids are creative dressers?

If all these examples are the extent of this 'friend's' (you really need to stop saying that btw) crimes against humanity, you are just being thoroughly judgmental and rather unpleasant-sounding.

It's far more important that they are loved, polite, kind and happy. It's really a small thing that will change in time as the children get older.

Broadening out the point, the UK is a little weird about uniforms in general, in my experience. Schools all over the world produce excellent results and keen, enthusiastic learners without uniform. This country seems to put disproportionate amounts of faith into putting kids in uniforms. And I'm not sure that the argument that it teaches them to toe the line when they're adults is a very persuasive one.