To think my parents are not being unreasonable (childcare)

[InappropriateAdult]

My brother and his wife are late 30s and have 2 children aged 4 and 8. Both have very well-paid jobs and can easily afford childcare. They like to go off to hotels at the weekend a few times a year without the kids.

My parents are very late 60s and live locally. They are happy to provide occasional childcare during the day e.g. inset days, a couple of days for each school holiday, if a child is sick etc. So maybe a total of 12 days a year. They are flexible and will always help if they are around.

But they struggle with overnight care. My mum is partially deaf and wears a hearing aid, and really worries about not hearing kids in the night. So she basically doesn't sleep when they stay overnight.

They have offered to have DB's children for 4x overnights a year. DB is not happy about this and has been applying increasing pressure to get them to do more.

They've just called me, really upset. DB went round to their house and ranted at them for 45 minutes about what terrible grandparents and parents they are, how everyone else does more for their grandchildren, and threatened to stop them seeing the kids. He then said he was going to go no contact with them for a 4 month "period of reflection" on their relationship - but only after this weekend, when they've already agreed to do an overnight.

AIBU to think my parents do plenty, and that DB is an entitled idiot?

60's isn't old.
12 days a year isn't plenty.

However your brother is a nob, he doesn't deserve any help what so ever with his vile attitude and bullying behaviour!

Please do show your parents this thread, it's fairly unanimous.

"threatened to stop them seeing the kids" - hmm, that's rather - coercive, isn't it? Trying to control his parents' behaviour. Wasn't some bloke jailed for three years for that last week? Obviously that was on a completely different scale to your brother's behaviour, but it's coming from the same place IYSWIM - the sense of entitlement and the willingness to coerce parents to get what he wants.

Your brother's a knob.

Your brother is an entitled, bullying dick.

If I were your parents, I'd refuse to have the children overnight this coming weekend and tell him that they feel they also need some time to 'reflect' starting immediately. And that they won't be available for any June weekend, since that is clearly the reason for the end of the 'reflection' period.

Seriously. An entitled arse. Not everyone wants to be responsible for young children in their late 60s.

My.parents have never done overnights.although very fond of the grandkids. Mine are teens now and
I still.wouldnt expect it. What a.nutter your brother sounds.

isn't the issue that the grandmother is deaf, so can't be sure she would hear the children coming in and asking for help? So she worries about it?

The grandfather is there too. He doesn’t seem to be dead.

Seems like the issue in this family is entitled men and poor granny stressing herself and taking on too much childcare to accommodate it.

@InappropriateAdult
Your brother is a monumental, emotionally blackmailed entitled cunt

Deaf!!! Oh dear what a typo!

*blackmailling

Your brother is horrible talking to them like that but on the other hand it is a shame they don't want to see their gc more. I'm lucky I suppose my mother ( mid sixties ) does my child care 2/3 times a week. and if I were to ask her to have them on a weekend she would although I don't often as it's not fair. she wants to see them though and be an everyday part of their lives if she hasn't seen them for a while (I've being on annual leave ect) she's arranging for them to go to hers as she's missed them. so I suppose your brother might be hurt as your parents don't seem as bothered as compared to sister in laws parents.

Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it and there are some really thoughtful / helpful views here.

I've got to be up early tomorrow so going to bed, but I will take time to carefully re-read all the responses and think about how to share with my parents. I do think I need to speak to DB/SIL too, though I suspect it won't end well (with DB at least).

If they can afford that many weekends away, they just need to factor in the cost of childcare as well.

He had children, it's his responsibility to take care of them - not dump them on his parents.

Your brother's being a dick. Using access to the kids as a weapon is profoundly distasteful.

As you've suggested, I do think speaking to your brother directly about the falling out would be a good idea. I sometimes find I only get one side of the story from my parents, and when I talk to my sibling they have a slightly different take on a falling out... (that might not be the case with your parents though!)

My daughter is deaf in one ear so please do not use partial deafness as a reason why your mother couldn't look after the kids overnight.

You have no idea how someone's disability affects them and can you imagine the shit-storm if she failed to hear one of the kids during the night?

When you're dealing with other peoples kids you have to be so very, very careful as they AREN'T YOUR CHILDREN.

So please don't judge the capabilities of other people with disabilities.
Their house may be split over numerous levels, house might be really old with light switches the children can't easily reach, but leaving a light on may prevent the other child from sleeping, one of the kids may have commented that 'Granny couldn't hear me etc.'

There are too many variables to allow a fair judgement to be made on someone else's disability- plus I don't think you should judge someone else's disability anyway.

I only remember staying over at my own grandparents once without my parents, we only ever saw them with my parents. My own daughter has a very close relationship with her grandparents but has never slept over on her own there, just hasn't been needed. She's 8 and I think they have babysat once, possibly twice in all that time. They are their if needed if not then it's all family time together. The same with all their grandchildren and they have as close a bond as possible with all of them. Grandparents are not obliged to provide childcare to be decent grandparents.

It'sReallyNotOK thank you for saying that, you are spot on.

Missyoumuch DF was an equal parent to us growing up. But he's got his own health problems and is no longer confident dealing with a child that isn't his in the middle of the night.

And ultimately - why should they?

Of course they want to see their grandchildren, as much as possible - together with their own parents to look after them.

He shouldn't expect any help at all! They're his bloody children. I'm lucky, my parents come over and see our children every week and always offer to have them in the holidays but I'd never expect them to do it and I don't ask.
MIL rarely has them to stay and that's fine too, it's her choice.
I think your parents do plenty and your brother needs to stop being a prick and look after his own children. I'd be willing to bet the 4 month ban will end when one of their children is ill. I really hope your parents refuse to do any childcare for him now!

at that typo @missyoumuch! No, you're quite right, I agree it is very sexist to think it's only the grandmother who should feel responsible.

However, I have to say I know my parents - who are this age - are, unfortunately, fairly sexist in their perceptions of roles. And if the OP's parents are too, then it's unlikely they'll change suddenly and unprompted.

My dad is much more physically capable than my mum, but I would always trust my mum more than my dad around our daughter, because dad is, sadly, someone who grew up in the 1950s and who really would not know what to do with a 8 year old who'd vomited all over the bed, or an 4 year old who had had a nightmare.

I see that it is sexist, but I don't get the impression the brother's main issue is loving concern about unequal relationships - it sounds much more like a selfish desire to insist they do more than they're comfortable with doing.

My PIL are late 60s, live locally to us and have never babysat DD who is 5. Loads of grandparents do no childcare. They're not obliged to. Yes, it can be a bit irritating if you know loads of people who are overrun with grandparental help but your brother is getting more than many people.
Your brother and possibly your SIL are being very rude and entitled.

@inappropriateadult you wonder why you brother doesn't ask a friend? The answer is because he's selfish. If he asked a friend he'd one day be expected to return the favour. He's clearly not the "giving" type to do so. He's a "taker". Unfortunately you can rarely get through to this type of person to make them see sense, despite a MN thread where the majority agree with you. He'd just pick out the few comments that say your DP aren't doing enough.

Maybe try speaking with your SIL, but ultimately I think your role has to be supporting your parents through their upset and pointing out (print out and redact swear words?!) how many people think he's a *$=+ (self redacted for DM's benefit!)

To those saying late 60's is not old and hearing issues does not mean you can't take care of kids.
If you are retired, so not working and lose hearing that often leads to a loss of confidence. It is very common for some hearing loss in older people to lead to this. Of course not everyone reacts like this, but many people do.
There is also a vast difference in how people are in their late 60's. Some still seem young and no different from when they were 40, others are old and this shows in what they are able to do. I know by their late 60s my dad was fine, but my mum got so tired so easily.

Perhaps your brother needs to speak to a few more people. Our 3 unfortunately never stayed at any grandparents house overnight (due to age, dementia or lack of interest) We had a little help in the daytime when the children were quite young for hospital appts etc. How sad he can;t appreciate the fact he has around 12 days/year and has had several overnights from your parents when they were younger. How cruel to speak to your parents like that threatening no contact. They must feel so upset and very used.
I hope he will see fit to employ someone to do child care and apologise to your parents and a decent relationship will be restored for everyones sake.

And yes it is common in this generation for the men to have had very little involvement in raising their children when they were very young. So they have no experience to draw on and many would take no responsibility anyway and look to their wives to do so. If that is the set up, then whatever you think it would be the grandmother doing the childcare.

Agree so much with @karencantobe about how people are different.

My parents are late 60s and, sadly, they are really not in great health. However, DP's mum is in her late 50s, and you would never know she was younger than them - she had her hip replaced a couple of years ago, the other hip is due to be replaced in a few weeks, she has a massive hernia, she struggles with her breathing and she can't stand up straight any more because of back issues. She's not been able to lift DD safely since she was a few months old. FIL, who is 69, can't get downstairs without resting several times, and has end-stage kidney failure.

If your parents are healthy and full of energy in their 60s (or if you are), that's great! Enjoy it! But do remember not everyone else is, and some people are really struggling.

Your brother's entitlement is shocking.

PILs babysit my DD about 3-4 times a year overnight and barely anytime throughout the week. You bet that we make full use of that time by doing either diy or serious housework followed by an evening out. Your brother is an arse.

They really arent the problem - he is. My parents are in good health and retired. They look after my siblings children alot and now also do the same with mine. I would not expect them to though. They are perfectly within their rights to say no sorry we can't at any point. They would only be unreasonable if they said yes, then last minute said no without me having been unreasonable in my behaviour to justify it. But otherwise they have raised their kids - it is entirely up to them what they do now and it wouldnt make them bad grandparents if they didnt want to look after our kids as much as they do and I had to hire a nanny or pay for nursery.

Ultimately your brother is extremely unreasonable and they should refuse now to have the kids at the coming weekend due to his treatment of them. Just because he may know other people whose parents look after their grandkids more doesnt mean that it is mandatory. If he wanted all of these weekends away and not to pay childcare or have restrictions from your parents, he should not have had children tbh. At the very least if you expect to place responsibility on people who havent chosen to procreate to make your kids, you should tell them before you procreate. I 100% had the childcare conversation with my parents before I procreated to work out finances and how we would work out jobs etc