AIBU pregnancy with an unsuitable man ALL over this site

[SiriusBlack94]

It amazes me that EVERY day there are multiple posts with...

My DH is so lazy —— I’m 30 weeks pregnant
My DH is a narcissist how can I leave him —- I have a baby on the way
I don’t love my DH anymore - but I’m 28 weeks pregnant
DH drinking all the time/doing drugs/ controlling/ doesn’t help around the house —- but I’m pregnant.

Like seriously. Why are women so casual about getting pregnant with men that aren’t suited to them or who they aren’t in a loving relationship with. I know in some cases a man can turn abusive during pregnancy but in the majority of cases it’s things like ‘my DH drinks 4 times a week’ or ‘my DH never helps around the house’ which you would’ve KNOWN but still got pregnant.

I just don’t understand it and they are then tying themselves with often multiple children to these men.

Countless women told their affair wasnt their fault. The om manipulated them or the husband wasnt good enough

We must be reading different forums then because I've not seen "countless" women told this. On the contrary I've seen them criticised (to an extreme degree).

You are confusing infantalising women with acknowledging and respecting that women's choices are driven by complex reasons

^This, even where the women have that choice.

because being a good parent is completely different to being a good boyfriend. The requirements of being a good dad aren’t necessarily important in being a good boyfriend so you don’t see that side of your partner until it’s too late. When I met my oh i was interested in someone funny, interesting, fun and intelligent. Now we have children I see that kindness, putting others first and patience are more important in a partner. As an I dependent woman it didn’t matter that I wasn’t looked after because I could look after myself but that suddenly does become a deal breaker when you’ve got children in that the need for nurture (of kids not me) is vital.

Narcissists are at least very good at hiding their true selves and motives. Good luck spotting one in the wild, especially if you have past trauma

Oh and just as women don't "get themselves" pregnant, they don't "get themselves" into "these situations". There are men, families and wider societal pressures involved.

How very true but there is a word missing - alone or on their own. Women don’t indeed get themselves pregnant, it takes two. That said it is the woman who becomes pregnant and a women (unless raped) has control over becoming pregnant and deciding what to do if that happens. Saying it is the man’s fault negates the adulthood of the woman.
In any reasonable, committed and mature relationship, the couple discuss and agree they would like a child. They consider the impact. They plan accordingly and then stop using contraception. If it’s not a reasonable, committed and mature relationship then pregnancy should not be on the agenda.
The only victim of feckless parenting are the children.

We must be reading different forums then because I've not seen "countless" women told this. On the contrary I've seen them criticised (to an extreme degree).

That's only started happening recently when people point out the hypocrisy that men can't have affairs but women can and it's the man's fault they did it. No. There is no excuse for it, yet I still see people going 'oh its fine he probably deserved it, just don't tell him'. Not as many thankfully.

I think there's a lot of truth in the saying "love is blind".

I've seen it time and time again among women I know. They get together with a new man, it's all moonlight and roses, they think everything's perfect, this is The One, together forever and all that, get married maybe, and have a child.

Only then, when the reality of the daily grind of work/running a home/raising a family/managing finances becomes a reality (and all of that is much more work with children) does it become clear that they've lumbered themselves with a useless, selfish, lazy irresponsible twat.

I've seen it time and time again. One of my brightest, smartest, funniest, kindest friends had this happe. I first knew her through work. When I met her partner, I straight away thought "charming but hopeless manchild". They got married, and I sat at her (wonderful) wedding, knowing it wasn't going to last.

They had a child. Finances were tight. He refused to move to the northern county she grew up in, where low housing costs would have improved their financial position massively. Instead, they moved to the southern city he grew up in, where housing was cheaper, but still expensive. The childcare promised by his parents fell apart very quickly. All his old friends were close by, and he spent more and more time out with them, living like a single man. The money they were saving on their mortgage mostly went on his social life. He stopped pulling his weight in the house. After less than 2 years, they split up.

She's struggling financially, a single mum with a demanding full-time job. She feels she can't move back to the north, because their child loves her daddy and would miss him. Her life is, frankly, pretty shit.

And all because she couldn't see him for what he is, she was blinded by love.

There is so much more to each woman's experience of when, how and why, they use contraception or consider planning for pregnancy, than you are acknowledging.

Discussing how you dealt with planning pregnancy only describes your own experience, driven by your background, your culture, your emotional and intellectual abilities, your self estem and ability to not doubt your choices, your financial situation, and so on.

Each woman and manexperience planning for pregnany differently. We can not simplify it to just a decision made in a vacuum , there are pressures and other factors at play when individuals plan pregnancy.

So many women give so little thought to who they create babies with.

If women only had babies with kind, decent, loyal, emotionally literate, hardworking, responsible men, the birthrate would be through the floor.

If women only had babies with kind, decent, loyal, emotionally literate, hardworking, responsible men, the birthrate would be through the floor.

You make it sound like thats a bad thing.

For example, two women-
Each woman falls for a successful man, but then finds he is not only good at controling his plans for a career, but he is also is very controlling with her.

The woman with low self esteem starts to doubt herself when told by her partner that she is silly for thinking his controlling attitude is stiffling her and not healthy for their relationship. She feels unsure and doubts her instincts that this is a red flag, so she stays and because she has few friends to confide in about her thoughts, she hopes for the best when they choose to become pregnant with a child.

The woman with great self esteem believes in herself and disagrees when told by the controlling man that she is silly for thinking that his controling attitude is stiffling her and makes plans to leave, She knows and does not doubt herself, when she talks with her friends that this was an unhealthy relationship in which to choose to have a child.

Example Should say; two women, one with low self esteem, one with great self esteem. Each woman met similar man.

The woman with great self esteem believes in herself and disagrees when told by the controlling man that she is silly for thinking that his controling attitude is stiffling her and makes plans to leave, She knows and does not doubt herself, when she talks with her friends that this was an unhealthy relationship in which to choose to have a child

I think it is also about material resources. So many women stay with bad men because it is financually better for them (they think) to do so and so many have created the basis for this by investing in 'finding a man' rather than a well-paying job and/or putting his career first - for example moving for his work or giving up full time work or taking an easier job to facilitate his career. This is acknowledging the sexism inherest in workplaces that still sees men advantaged over women in that domain of course.

YANBU

I have friends who have had babies to partners simply in the hope it might make him change and be nicer?
I have friends pregnant now who have always always complained what a shit their partner is, however planned pregnancy and gobsmacked that their partner is a shit?

Agreed unplanned, hidden personalities etc but OP is talking about things like above where you know they’re no good but expect them to suddenly start being good in the most stressful and hardest time in anyone’s life.

The requirements of being a good dad aren’t necessarily important in being a good boyfriend so you don’t see that side of your partner until it’s too late.

I think there's a lot in that. And if you don't fully get what qualities make a good dad then you aren't able to look out for them even if you did think about it. All the "but he's a great dad!" posts about men who can't be arsed with the basics of day-to-day parenting but do fun Disney-dad stuff and make the kids laugh when they feel like it.

My husband is great at being a parent as well as a partner but feel I can't put that all down to my brilliant choosing skills. Honestly I probably didn't think about it as much as I would advise my own daughters to. I thought "well he's decent, and he wants children, so I'm sure he will translate that decency towards being a father too." And he did but I know lots of women who thought the same and were disappointed and now have children with men with who have persistent low-level selfishness and the unconscious belief that the boring parts of parenting are women's work. I'm sure that those qualities were there all along, but they weren't as easy to spot as they became after the children came along.

You’re not wrong there Midsummabreak. Women have had babies with dickheads from the beginning of time, all we can do is raise our daughters not to and our sons to step up their game.

Yabvu a lot of arseholes dont show their true colours until there is a pregnancy/baby and they arent centre of the universe any longer. Its a well documented fact that a lot of domestic abuse starts during pregnancy.

I was happily married for many years when the abuse started. Im sorry I didnt have a crystal ball.

Its so tiresome that the question is always asked of the women and never of the men.

Yep Inliverpool1 very true, and additionally we can be mindful to raise our sons and daughters to show compassion to women and men who experience shit relationships and understand the difference between listening and supporting versus judging and shaming.

There are so many factors at play that change or influence our contraceptive and family planning choices, many of which not discussed on here. I am grateful that I had a great education, some great family support, and met fantastic people to counteract some shit life and background experiences.

I know this is not true always or even often but you will get posters on MN who will post about a relationship that sounds shit, the bloke is a real waster only 3 months into a relationship. OP is told to LTB, told his behaviour is unacceptable etc. 6 months later there'll be a thread from the same poster, now 3 months pregnant and struggling with even worse behaviour.

It makes you want to rip your hair out, i think it is just people with epic low self confidence who have no idea how nice a decent bloke can be.

@Willyoujustbequiet

Couldn’t agree more.
There’s a lot of aspersions casting in ivory towers it seems to me.

It could happen to anyone.
There’s an astonishingly patronising notion that all women who end up with abusers are Stupid or smashed already.
Instead of stigmatising and bashing women whose Iives and those of their children’s are ruined BECAUSE OF SOMEONE ELSE is an abusive shit, why don’t these people ask these fuckers why they do it.

Damaged not smashed

Additionally to low self confidence infuencing factors can be the control and abuse by partners during and prior to pregnancy.

Only on page 3 but I agree with the general standard of relationships being set as very low by society and so we as women are taught to be grateful to accept very little.

I do wonder how 'perfect' the perfect relationships described really were/are and if they would remain so if viewed under scrutiny.

And I'm speaking from my own experience.

It’s hard to know how to fix that though so women value themselves more and are educated as to what a normal loving relationship looks like.

Surely it’s the men who need educating and not the women? Why are you laying the fault for the failures of men at the feet of women?

Men need to learn what is acceptable behaviour. Men need to take responsibility for their children. Men need to treat their partners like equal human beings.

(Obviously not all men. I happen to be married to a very nice man)

So long as women keep attacking each other for the failures of men nothing will ever get better.

It’s often said that women are their own worst enemy. When I read threads on here written by women about how useless some women are to let themselves be treated so appallingly by men I feel such anger and frustration.

I'll hold up my hand to being reckless about my choice of who would father my child. Yes, should have known better. But I think you're over-simplifying complex psychological processes. It's possible to know and not know things at the same time.

The way we perceive our decisions is driven by our internal narrative, so the women you're criticising will be seeing things differently to the way you are on the outside. The first time exH was aggressive, I didn't think "Oh no, red flag" - I told myself "Ah, here we are, two strong-willed people, having some initial clashes before we settle down and find our common ground". It took a long, painful time to reframe that narrative.

In an ideal world, we all work towards becoming aware of our subconscious drivers and stop them leading us to poor decisions, but it's a process - we don't all come into the world knowing this.