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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want a fourth child

192 replies

Tumti2 · 11/01/2020 21:36

I have just had a baby a week ago!

Just not sure I’m ready to say never again .

OH definately doesn’t want a fourth .

AIBU to think I could talk him round and go for it !

Have you ever done the same and had more babies than your OH wanted initially ?

Or is this a passing phase .

I do have everything I wanted from the babies I have had eg both sexes etc .

Initially only wanted at least two maybe three .

OP posts:
Tumti2 · 17/01/2020 01:12

It’s nice to hear from ppl who have had similar feelings

OP posts:
caringcarer · 17/01/2020 04:29

Enjoy the children you have now and reconsider your options in a couple of years. Your DH may change his mind. We had two and I wanted a third but DH did not. Then when first 2 at school he changed his mind and we had a third.

Winter2019 · 17/01/2020 04:54

I had a second baby 2 weeks ago and we are definitely not having another one for a number of reasons but my God I already feel a bit sad that it's our last baby. Tbh I never really wanted more than 2 (or would've been happy with 1) so I think it's just hormones and seeing how day by day she's getting bigger. I mean a week is definitely too early to decide. In few months they'll be so different

Linning · 17/01/2020 05:06

YAB(massively)U

3 kids is already too many for our planet, let alone 4.

The fact that you don't think you should have to consider this when reproducing already means you should stick to 3. You are NOT the one who will have to live and survive on a planet that cannot sustain them, it will be your kids/grand-kids having to carry the burden, and if you can't be bothered to think about their quality of life BEFORE their conception you should definitely refrain from conceiving.

Sorry if that comes across harshly, but it really gets to me to see women popping babies left and right because they are broody with no regards to those children's quality of life because they think their right to a baby should trump their kids quality of life/our planet's well-being. (Writing this from California, where I have seen plenty of babies/kids living with the consequences of smoke/fire exposition due to our planet not coping with climate change btw.)

I grew up as one of 4 and my mom just had her 5th child, I personally think she is completely irresponsible for it. As one of 4 (or 5) I personally hated having so many siblings that we couldn't afford holidays or the after-school activities we wanted, or even school trips, I hated that it was impossible to have one on one time with my mom because there was always another kid needing her, I hated that she missed out on signs I needed her because she was too stretched to realize what was going on in her kids life and could only have a superficial insight into our lives due to lack of time/energy/resources that come with having (too many/) 4 kids. I love my siblings (well some of them anyway) but I wished my mom had thought about us and our quality of life instead of picking her need to have more children over her already existing one.

A baby that doesn't exist doesn't need and doesn't need being born but your kids who are already here do, and can you genuinely guarantee them the same amount of time/energy/resources with a new baby as you do now? I doubt it. If so I think it's unfair on them to willingly give them less to fulfill something you don't need and would affect them most.

Homewithaview · 17/01/2020 11:48

YANBU - I have 3 and my youngest turned 2 in Dec. Most of the time 3 is enough (full on kids) and I don't think I'd cope with more, but I still wonder if we should just go ahead with a 4th and work logistics later because I wouldn't be without any of them. No one is ever fully prepared for a baby 1st or 4th!

I was surprised to read so many people comment about the environment. My experience is that children do not cause pollution/carbon footprints adults do. If it is an issue there are many green baby options. Since having children I travel, shop, eat out, buy new clothes etc, much less than I used to.

Wait until you are settled in with bubs and adapted to 3 kids before deciding and discussing another. In the end go with your heart and what works for you, your husband and family. An amazing part of being a parent is the way that your capacity to love expands with each child.
Good luck with your new baby and future decisions.

GotAGripHowAboutYou · 17/01/2020 12:21

We planned to stop at one, but had a contraception fail and ended up pregnant with dc2! We decided to continue with it and immediately after dc2 was born, I decided I wanted a FEW more Confused. I think it's the rush hormones immediately after you give birth.

I realised we absolutely do not want any more shortly afterwards.

A large part of our plan to stop at one was to do with the environment, but people always think that's ridiculous. I really don't think it is.

Two is plenty for us and the planet. So I think three is probably a good time to stop, but it's an incredibly personal choice.

GotAGripHowAboutYou · 17/01/2020 12:24

My experience is that children do not cause pollution/carbon footprints adults do

Yes, but they become adults. So if the op stops now, there will be three adult consumers / carbon producers, who might go on and have their own dcs. If she has another then that is another adult.

The idea that people should stop at 2 children max is because when a couple dies, if they leave two (hopefully adult by then) children behind, max, they are not adding to the population as they sort of cancel each other out. One child is better still, because when the couple dies, it's two out, one in iyswim.

Homewithaview · 17/01/2020 14:11

One child is better still, because when the couple dies, it's two out, one in iyswim.

They tried this in China and now are struggling with an aging population unable to be supported by the working population among other things.
I think it's complicated. I'm 1 of 2 children but my younger sister died at 25.
I'm obviously not an expert (happy to accept evidence from experts) I believe the planet has enough resources to support us all, it's just being mismanaged by us at an unsustainable rate. Read an article yesterday about how drilling and fracking is causing earth quakes. Given myself a headache! Too much for my brain.

GotAGripHowAboutYou · 17/01/2020 15:36

You're right homewithaview, re ageing populations. But, since we, in the UK, where the birth rate really isn't high, are still nowhere near one child per couple, (we are higher; at 1.8, I believe?), I don't think there is much danger of us becoming like China. Although some people are concerned about the ageing population here already.

However, as people always say on these sorts of threads, having more babies to care for the elderly becomes a viscous circle as those babies grow up, become elderly, need to be cared for, so we need more babies to care for them and so on and so on. So, ideally, we would find a way to do with gradually fewer young people caring for older generations, so when they grow up and become elderly, we can do with fewer young people and so on. But that would mean accepting a stagnant or even shrinking economy, which is a big issue. Because, as you rightly say, it isn't just being cared for physically, in old age, but that we rely on younger people to run public services when the elderly population no longer can. So, things like hospitals, emergency services, agriculture etc, all need young(er) peopleto run them.

I personally feel that as CC worsens, environmental politics will become more and more mainstream (as it already is). When it takes centre stage, growing economy / GDP will no longer be the way countries tend to measure their success, so smaller populations will be more acceptable.

Also, they didnt "try this" in China. I am talking about couples who care a lot about the environment, but who still want children, choosing not to have more than one or two. In China it was obviously ghastly, with forced abortions, baby girls being abandoned or aborted because of the preference for boys etc. I don't agree with forcing couples to limit the number of children they have for the sake of the planet, but I do think many couples choose to do it of their own accord.

But you're absolutely right to say that it is more complicated than having babies is 'bad' and the fewer the babies born the better.

Sorry if this is a ramble; this is one of my 'pet subjects' Grin. I am a horrible bore...Blush.

anothernamejeeves · 17/01/2020 15:44

Instead of feeling there is something missing I tend to look at how (hate this word but it's true here) blessed I am and how so many would just love what I have
Three healthy kids and safe deliveries what more could I want in life

GotAGripHowAboutYou · 17/01/2020 15:53

Oh and re your question about the planet being able to sustain the current population if we managed it better; I don't think even top experts could accurately predict what the planet could sustain if we did x,y,z...all the things we could do differently/ better. It's a huge question.

But, if everyone has three children or more, the planet will have to sustain MORE than it currently does, as we will leave an additional person behind per couple, if that makes sense. If those three children then go on to have three plus each, you get an additional three people on top of that and so on. Global population is set to rise. Not in the UK. It is anticipated that the growth will be in Africa, but some people also anticipate that this will drop off quickly.

Now this is the bit where my knowledge isn't great, but, I am learning more about it; at the moment, bu understanding is that the planet is being forced to produce more than it can manage longterm. So, for example, we are using intensive farming techniques to get more out of the soil. This is causing soil erosion, so that top soil may not be able to produce crops in the not too distant future. No crops, means no plants for us to eat. It also means we cannot feed livestock, unless we use a less traditional way of doing so.

We are also clearing rainforest to make room for livestock for us to eat. We need the rainforest to absorb carbon dioxide. If we keep clearing it, we will be in big trouble, but the problem is that people need to eat, so we need land to produce food for them.

But whether smarter management, as you say, could prevent this^^ happening, I don't know.

It would be a lot easier to manage though, if the population was a more manageable size. At the very least, aiming for it not to grow much more would be a good thing. That's my logic anyway. So I wouldn't feel comfortable saying "I'll have that extra child or two - it'll work itself out", because I suppose I would be thinking, what if everyone does the same and their dcs do the same?

GotAGripHowAboutYou · 17/01/2020 15:55

That was to @Homewithaview sorry.

Also, "my understanding", not "bu understanding" Confused.

cologne4711 · 17/01/2020 15:59

Yes YABU. Those who already have big families, have them. You can't send them back on environmental grounds.

But you don't need to have anymore once you've already got 3.

And no doubt you'll then be saying you need a bigger, more polluting car, because of the 4th child.

Also, do you work? So are you expecting an employer to pay for another maternity leave?

cologne4711 · 17/01/2020 16:00

Three healthy kids and safe deliveries what more could I want in life

And this. I quit while I was ahead after one.

You've had three safe deliveries and no bad side effects for you I assume.

I'd definitely take the view I'd used up my share of good luck.

MeanMrMustardSeed · 17/01/2020 16:57

@AnnieTotach

Thank goodness someone is talking sense

Agreed. Thank you for this overview of population issues! I totally agree.

Don’t let that get in the way of your virtue posturing the rest of you!

DottyZebra · 17/01/2020 18:00

I've always wanted 3, after my 3rd was born I was so desperate to have another one because I could not believe this would be my last baby. DH was completely against another child. I was torn between my emotions and common sense, my heart would say have another one but my brain would say this is madness. Now they are a bit older I am so glad we stopped at 3 because even with 3 it feels too much sometimes. I love them all dearly but number 4 would probably break us.

Homewithaview · 17/01/2020 23:41

GotAGripHowAboutYou

You are right it is different in the UK and other western countries to what happened in China. I was just referring to the situation and didn't want to be too long winded giving a comprehensive dialogue.

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