Bored of teacher friend banging on about how hard her job is

[JustACog]

Friend's a teacher and I'm tired of the chat about how her job is harder/longer/more stressful than everyone else's.

Almost every conversion now gets round to her moaning about how much she's overworked how much time she spends marking or planning. I do believe there is a lot of work involved in teaching and it's not a job I could do but I'm fed up of it being laid on thick. Fed up of the martyrdom around the sacrifice she's making for the children

CF said to me that I'm lucky to have my job (nurse full time shifts in A&E) as I just get to switch off when I leave and she's on the job from dawn to dusk.

AIBU to call her out on this, really feeling like I'd like to ask her what she really thinks other people do that's so much easier than teaching.

A school.

Of course!

I'm not sure why teachers can't understand that their holidays are paid! They have an annual wage of £probably not enough paid monthly whether or not that month includes holidays or not. They don't get to pick those days. We get that. But then a lot of environments have leave ban periods of time due to work demands, the tax year cycle or imposed leave for factory shutdown/ maintenance.

I'm not sure why teachers can't understand that their holidays are paid!

Ive tried quite hard but I can’t make 195 days+ annual leave of 28 days add up to a whole year. It seems as though there is a proportion of the year that is, um, unpaid?

Maybe it’s because I’m a English teacher though? Any maths colleagues around?

Any maths colleagues around?

Happy to help.

So I'm going to explain this verrrrrry slowly for you.

Teachers are paid for 195 days plus statutory holiday, this is how the per annum is calculated.

Its then divided into 12 and paid out as a salary.

I'm not sure which bit you don't get. Whilst you may receive pay during the holidays it doesn't mean all holidays are paid.

I'm slightly confused by people saying teachers don't get paid for school holidays , I have several TA and teacher friends and my understanding is in state schools if you have a permanent contract Teaching assistants annual salary is pro rota'd ( reduced) to reflect term time plus statutory annual leave but teachers annual salary's aren't pro rota so their annual salary is their annual salary and unlike TA' s is not reduced to reflect term time only . Teachers only need to be in school during term time and teacher training days , there is no obligation for them to work during school holidays , in reality they will do some work during the holidays but certainly not every day.

Teachers do work hard and the job can be stressful but they also have the unique benefit of having at least a week off every 6-7 weeks to recharge. There are many jobs that are stressful an A and E nurse would definitely be up there , everyone likes a bit of a moan about their job and after you've been their a while you probably become blind to the benefits like the holidays, but teaching definitely has its upsides .

On the update holidays, on this logical could you not argue we all have unpaid holidays?

Salaries calculated on x weeks of work plus y weeks of holiday. Salary divided by 12. In the case of teachers y is higher.

While I don’t want to enter into the debate about whether teachers work harder (there are hard workers and clackers in every workplace), the predicable summer holidays do allow second jobs. I know teachers who earn very good money tutoring in Halloween, Easter and summer holidays.

Teaching is hard work. But I think everyone should take a more balanced view.

I've tried quite hard but I can’t make 195 days+ annual leave of 28 days add up to a whole year. It seems as though there is a proportion of the year that is, um, unpaid?

School teachers in England and Wales are paid an annual salary accruing at a daily rate.

Any school teacher thinking of resigning this summer would be very foolish to give their leaving date as the last day of the teaching term (i.e. end of July) - they probably won't get paid for August - if they give their leaving date as the 31st August they will get paid - their annual salary accrues daily - so yes, they are paid for the school holidays (n.b. fixed term contracts can be different/academies can have their own contracts etc.)

Also, the Burgundy Book says that deductions for teachers on strike should be calculated on the basis of a day’s salary being 1/365th of a year’s salary – therefore a teacher who misses one day through strike action can expect to lose 1/365th of his or her annual salary.

Also, the Burgundy Book says that deductions for teachers on strike should be calculated on the basis of a day’s salary being 1/365th of a year’s salary – therefore a teacher who misses one day through strike action can expect to lose 1/365th of his or her annual salary
Based on a contract stipulating 1,265 hours of directed time over 190 days term time + 5 days inset. It's a term time only contract.

Nice to see you again Clavi. You do love threads about teacher pay and conditions. It's admirable and bizarre in equal measure how overly invested you are in our profession.

Runnerduck34 Teaching assistant contracts are a nightmare at times and there have been multiple issues with councils and schools over this as (prior to academisation for simplicity) they are paid on the local council pay scales on those terms, not terms that have been negotiated like the burgundy book.

I've seen and heard the following happen:

1. Council advertises a TA role as having a salary of £18,000 which is then pro-rated down for term time only and the TA hours.
2. Council advertises a TA role as being £12,000 and that's the actual salary paid. The salary is lower to already account for the term time hours.

There was a situation in one council that made the news where the council had previously taken approach 2, and then when they were trying to cut money they tried to argue that £12,000 was for a year round, full time post and then wanted to push the TAs into accepting thousands in a pay cut. Some had to apply for their own jobs again on worse terms. Whilst you can't believe everything in the press, it sounded horrible.

If nurses got as much criticism from the government and the public as teachers do, they'd be defending themselves militaristically vociferously too.

at a daily rate

Based on 1265 hours over 195 days.

Primary teachers statistically work around 60 hours a week on average.

Recent study on teachers' working hours published September 2019;

schoolsweek.co.uk/1-in-4-teachers-work-over-60-hours-a-week-but-thats-not-why-theyre-leaving/

"The report, said teachers work an average of 47 hours a week in term time, eight hours more than teachers in comparable OECD countries."

"One in four teachers work more than 59 hours a week, while 10 per cent work more than 65 hours per week. Around 40 per cent said they usually work in the evening, and 10 per cent during the weekend."

"However, it said these hours–although “high”–had been broadly the same for the last two decades and were “unlikely” to explain declining teacher retention."

If 40% of teachers usually work in the evening and 10% work during the weekend - there's a good chance that many posters do actually know a teacher who doesn't work evenings or weekends.

LolaSmiles
Nice to see you again Clavi. You do love threads about teacher pay and conditions. It's admirable and bizarre in equal measure how overly invested you are in our profession.

14 pages before I posted - are you the resident school bully?

Clavinova

Hi! Good to see you again. Any chance you could find some stats on how many teachers moan about their jobs and say their job is the hardest of all?!

ChloeDecker

14 pages before I posted - are you the resident school bully?
I'm not sure the page joining makes much difference to the inevitable point where you start copying and pasting and using copying and pasting to justify whatever argument you seek to make, often whilst paying little to no attention to the frontline experiences of those in the professionz though it seems that's already started.

Who knows, in a few pages time we may be enlightened with quotations from job adverts for STEM subjects and claim it proves church schools pay more, or that an advert showing the whole MPS-UPS pay scale proves that the typical teacher earns more than £40,000.

All the people saying the paid holidays, know they aren't paid. You get 4 weeks paid like everyone else, wages are the. Pro rated so an nqt only takes home around 1200/1300 a month for at least a 60 hour week and don't have the luxury of doing on holiday when they like so pay more and can't see there own children's assemblies etc

ChloeDecker
I heard that 184% of teachers think their job is the worst of all and harder than any other job ever known to humankind. 30% compare the job to walking through a mine field blindfolded whilst playing the bagpipes with one hand strapped behind their back. The job is so much more stressful than any other job that every year 56 teachers are involved in serious accidents involving loss of limb and their hair on fire but they're in school teaching within 3 hours of surgery with their hair still smouldering because the amputation was just a scratch and the world would end without them.

@Vgbeat but, on the positive, working parents who are teachers save thousands on childcare.

There are advantages and disadvantages in every career. The problem with this debate is everyone is focusing on one side of the coin

I think it’s just different people having different tolerances of moaning. OPs friend does sound insensitive not being able to empathise that OP also has a v stressful job. Maybe OP should encourage her friend to do another career or look at a different school?

It’s a shame the govt doesn’t do more to retain nurses and teachers. But unfortunately we’re stuck with the conservatives for another 5 years...

Haven’t read the thread because I can’t be bothered but for what it’s worth my sister was an A &E nurse for 10 years before she trained as a high school teacher. She says teaching is piss easy compared to nursing. She loves the long holidays and the money is better and it’s much much less stressful. I think lots of teachers haven’t ever worked in the real world so don’t really know that other people work hard too 😂

ahhh the "real world", what about teaching isn't the real world?

People on here who have been nurses say the opposite to you too.

I used to have a friend like that, She had been to school, then uni then PGCE then worked as a teacher.
She had no experience outside school, and nobody's job was as difficult as hers.
She also had children, childcare courtesy of grandparents. She seemed to be the only woman in the world who 'juggled her life'.

She changed career and got a rude awakening.

Well I suppose I mean that they tend to be very institutionalised. Teachers are fantastic and work really hard but so do other people in many different jobs, the difference is teachers do seem to moan more and I think it’s because they haven’t ever worked outside an educational institution.