To ask what you are supposed to do

[drspouse]

DS has an EHCP.
It's not very good and we have a tribunal coming up.
He has some challenging behaviour. We admit this and we are doing our best.
He moved school in Sept after we looked at 8 new schools, including 4 special schools.
The new school has just permanently excluded him. They have not tried all the suggestions of EP, OT etc and we know this is illegal but it doesn't help with the fact that he now has no school.
They are suggesting he goes to the PRU. I'm sure it's very nice but he has only just started to settle at the new school.
He's 8, in year 3, and loves to play with his teddies. We were told some of the older children at the SEMH schools we looked at had pulled knives on teachers. If there's any child like that at the PRU it will break him.
We both work, I've just been told I can't reduce my hours any further and DH has just started a secondment which will be for a year. The PRU has no after school club. We both have meetings at any/every hour of the working day. Giving up either of our jobs is not an option.
So we can't HE (and we don't want to, and we shouldn't have to, and it would be awful for DS).
What are parents of a child with SEN actually supposed to do? Is the idea that we are both supposed to sit at home with our child and keep him away from other children/schools/the public? Are we not supposed to work? Is the country going to pay us our (fairly high, which is partly why we aren't giving up work) salary for not working?
Note before you suggest it: yes we know we can look at out of area schools. We did, they are included in the ones above. We live quite rurally. We can't move (I have tried to move jobs for years). But we need school for DS NOW. Not in 6 months time after we've moved/fought for a private school place (there are none suitable anyway)/I've lost my job.

Hi OP - I've read a fair bit of this thread, and apologize for not reading all of it. All I can say is that I do so very much understand your what are we supposed to do/feeling a bit 'cross' - that becoming an 'unproductive/'wasted talent' looms on the horizon. I was in the same mindset as that 10 years ago or so.

Sadly, specialist provision for 'higher functioning' primary children has, and is, very poor. Even moreso in rural areas.

It's a complete shit, but I found 'acceptance' of the situation to be the most productive approach - not accepting of the 'dish dolloped out' but putting my 'wasted talents' into getting the best for DS.

Yes, we moved - just the 2 of us and a dog, so no partners or siblings to also have to consider - but I can say, putting all of my efforts into Project DS has worked out well. It takes a Permanent Exclusion (usually 2 at least) to have enough 'ammo' to throw back at the LEAs. So take comfort from that perversity.

PRUs are a mixed bag - the one's set up for teens are often 'kindest' to the primary dc. There are a few Indy SS that cater for primary dc, and please seek these out, many are in rural (ex-country houses) so there may be one near you. They usually Board but Day Places should be available. The one DS attended as a Day Pupil for 5 years was the making of him.

We moved back to the area from wence we came - DS finished his secondary ED at a mainstream/free school and now attends College.

He still has ASD, that won't ever change, but he's one of the nicest chaps with his own personality, which makes it all so worth it.

Good Luck OP

Im a Primary school Senco. SEND provision is dire. Your son may well have an EHCP but recruiting a suitable TA and providing resources is often a struggle especially in a mainstream school. Sounds like a mainstream cannot support him. Unfortunately it's not as simple as he has an EHCP so school must provide. If his EHCP targets recommend support such as small class sizes for eg, mainstreams simply can't do that.
I'm not clear why you've written off all the specialist settings? I've never heard of primary PRU pupils carrying knives. Have you visited the other settings? If he returns to this school, what are you hoping will change? The demands of a mainstream class are very different to a specialist setting. You may have named the mainstream school but what setting was recommended on his EHCP?

No setting was recommended. Well, originally the previous mainstream school was, and they kept muttering that he needed the MLD school (but mainly because it's easy for the school to say that, and it's cheaper for the LEA than the only other primary provision which is private).

The other (independent) specialist schools aren't suitable because 1 has no peers (only older, or nonverbal, pupils), 1 is very rigid (and also mainly older pupils - they told us he MUST do X which is a massive trigger) and one is really a secondary with a bit of KS2 tacked on. He needs to play. He needs to learn from his peers like he was doing at his previous school.

@drspouse what were you doing for wraparound care? What will you do on Monday?

It's such a crap situation and I'm sorry you're dealing with it. What would you like to happen? I can't see the school budging on this, not if they've permanently excluded him and definitely not quickly as they'll have procedures to follow such as governors meetings etc. So bearing that in mind, what will you do this coming week?

The PRU is, as a PP said, for children who have a plan to move on. There is no plan.

The PRU were instrumental in making a plan for mine

I had no idea where we were going to go at that point, but they had the staffing and the experience to spend a couple of weeks with my child and then said “Forget X school, you need Y school, and there needs to be Z support”

Everyone involved - schools, LEA etc - all listened to the head of the PRU as they didn’t want the cost of another stint in there

Without them I’m completely convinced I’d have ended up giving up work at that point and somehow muddling through

Instead my child has thrived in the right environment

One thing I will say though is this. It’s frustrating and even enraging at times. Especially if a close school should be able to cope, but simply don’t want too

However, I really urge you to put your energy into the areas that will make a difference to your child. I lost nearly three years fighting a school that simply didn’t want my child. Looking back now I realise that trying to make them do what they should was pointless. I should have focussed on what I could realistically achieve for the best for my child

Maybe they cannot get a TA prepared to do 1 to 1 with this child. What are they supposed to do? It doesn't matter what the law says if it's unenforceable.

A school I taught in was in a similar position, no one was prepared to be a 1 to 1 with a violent child

This. The OP keeps going on about the law but if no person is prepared to work with your violent child what then?

I have a NT child and was the main breadwinner but gave up work when she was very unhappy at nursery. Quite frankly she was more important to us than work.

Working is not a human right.

If you are so great at supporting and helping your child cope, which it sounds you are, why aren't you looking to manage this until he's in a better place and isnt a threat to teachers or other students?

When does the right of your child to be educated trump the right of teachers/other children to not be attacked?

Moreover, if they are offering a setting (the PRU) then I'm not sure how they are breaching your son's right to an education here? If you don't agree with the setting, that's you choosing to turn down a place surely?

You also talk about losing your contribution to society, in the kindest way, you chose to have a child. That child is currently needing a lot of help from society and is struggling by the sounds of things. Maybe the biggest contribution you can make here is raising your child and not focusing on work?

My dd whom is 13, nearly 14 has been out of school for almost two years now.
She has an ASD diagnosis however presents as PDA and doesn't cope well with school. She was permanently excluded at 8 years old, in the beginning of year 4, after the school promised to help her loads. She coped with infants because of the support they gave her, this was taken away in year 3.
All progress made up to that point was gone, school refused to apply for a statement because she was too academic. I applied for one myself, and on the day of the ED psych visit, the school decided to change her timetable and things went very badly, to the extent of her running out of school and trying to get home.

She was referred to a PRU which I cannot fault at all. It wasn't plain sailing, and she was still very challenging and struggled to cope at times. They never gave up on her, there was never more than 6 in a group, to two or three members of staff. Was supposed to be short term but due to lack of placements, she ended up staying from October half term of hear 4 until the end of year 6. She was ready to move on at that point. She had only ever done a maximum of three hours a day there because they couldn't offer more hours to any student due to lack of provision all around.

She moved on to a SEN secondary which went horrifically wrong, they couldn't meet her academic need a along with her PDA profile. She was no longer welcome there five months after starting, and at that point, she was school refusing anyway. Coming up to two years since she has been out of school. She does have funding for 15 hours a week of tuition through two tutors but this isn't working, she is social and needs a school. She is now very isolated, with no friends apart from those online she meets through her interests. She hardly leaves the house, and with all the schools refusing to place her, even mainstream with her ehcp, she now believes that no one wants her and no one will give her a chance. She refuses to be home edded because school is for school, and home is for home.

Her tutors are both mainstream teachers with a small amount of SEN experience. They can't get her to engage, they know it isn't working but they still co,e because they don't want my daughter to feel like they have also given up on her.

The LEA have consulted countless schools, none can take her either because they are full, no peer group, can't meet her needs, incompatible with other students needs, working at a higher level than the other students, the reasons go on. We are talking about schools all over the county, and also out of county.
There was one school they were pushing me to accept for her however it was not the right placement at all, and she would have been back to square one pdq. They consulted a local alternative provision who said no because she needs one to one support, and they already have one student that requires the same and they can't have two like that.

The PRU she was at for primary also go up to secondary and I have requested many times now for her to go back there, whether it is the same site she was at, or the other site. Keep getting told no, that they can't do that. This is a child who was very academically able, sat the level three papers in year two successfully. She is now most likely working at a year six level because she has missed so much school.

Have the added complication that she can't eat before school, or at school, so travelling for too long is a very bad idea, she also gets travel sick, and has to sit next to a window wide open. Most schools that usually are offered have shared transport which increases journey times. As an example, her last school was a 30 minute drive each way, add three other students and that made it nearing on an hour and half. If there's more, it's even longer travel times.

The sad thing is, is there are quite a few SEN schools local to me, more than other areas it seems, however all of them are catered for moderate or severe SEN, and not one can meet academic needs if they are working within the expected ranges for their age. There is one primary, and one secondary ASD hubs within two mainstream schools, however they don't cater for anyone that has challenging behaviour.

Sadly, my daughter experience isn't a isolated case and one that is very common.

As a teacher I too am disgusted by your attitude and entitlement.
Pay for private if you will.
State school teachers will not be attacked by children or allow a child to attack other children.
You blaming his behaviour on the staff is very offensive.

itsgettingweird

If it says quiet low arousal room and school accepts child they have to meet that. If they have another that states busy colourful room (unlikely but just for making a point!)

It isn't unlikely.

Gosh this is really Mumsnet bingo isn't it.
Children with SEN shouldn't be educated.
Or at least not in school with my child.
Or not paid for by the public.
Invisible disabilities aren't really disabilities.
Why did you have kids if you don't want to spend all day every day with them?
Why do children need anything other than academics from school?
Why should parents have any choice over their child's education?
Mothers are put on earth to spend 24/7 with their child.
Friends? You think your child deserves friends? No sorry, they are too different. Put them far, far away where we don't have to think about them.
Oh no, just let them run feral.
It's definitely the parents fault if your child can't cope with school. The school did nothing wrong, you just need to tell your child not to do that.

And standard defensive OP on MN.

OP: here's a problem/difficult scenario I'm facing
PP: options, recommendations
OP: none of them will work because I dont want to compromise on anything

What was the point of posting here if you hate it so much ...

Have I missed why you moved your DS to this school?

.

Have you bothered to read any of the posts by people who have been in your shoes?

If you just want a rant then that’s fine, but if you want help then you need to read what people are actually saying

There is a lot of good information on this thread

I think several of those 'bingo' elements haven't come up, but lots of advice and empathy has. I get that you're angry, but it does show a certain closed mind approach.

Also, I've read the whole thread but missed why he moved from the previous school as it sounds like you were very happy with it? Almost to the point where nothing else will measure up.

Boney k meant unlikely to say busy colourful room. It's not really something I've ever come across as a learning need in over 500 EHCPs Ive taught under. But it still remains yeh same that if 2 EHCP are conflicting and school accept both pupils they have to meet both pupils needs. They can't take them and then decide to place them together in they are conflicting.

If you can't meet need don't take the child!

I think as well we need to reframe some of the understanding of exclusion etc.

It sounds like the school are being honest about the fact that they cant meet your childs needs, which you already had recognised. What the school is telling you is that whilst your child is there they dont feel able to support him or keep him safe thus have excluded him.

Im not sure in that circumstance then why you would want him back at that school?

Honestly, it sounds like the school cannot meet his needs comfortably, and he deserves to be comfortable, happy and safe. Nothing going to be sorted immediately, one of you needs time off.

I haven't seen any of the 'bingo' style comments from your last post.

Have I missed why you moved your DS to this school?
Yes you have.

I would look at the costs of a live out nanny to get you through the next couple of months. Even if they are just so DS can be driven to and from the PRU by them.

If you've only looked at the live in costs, they will be a lot higher.

That at least would mean you can work.

It is shit your DS has been let down, but that's happened now.

I think I missed why you left the good school too?

Oh and agree, you could probably be signed off with stress tomorrow if you went to your GP, that would give you a couple of weeks to regroup.

@Fallofrain they are not being honest. If they were honest, they'd say "we can't meet his needs" and we'd say "let's try these other things you haven't tried" and they'd try them.
Illegally excluding him is not being honest.

@IndecentFeminist do you honestly not see that this is a feminist issue? Mothers of SEN children aren't entitled to a life outside their kids.

What was the point of posting here if you hate it so much .
Because it is absolutely essential that everyone is raging mad about this.
Because it's an issue for all parents.
Because it's a feminist issue.
Because I've got all the support and suggestions from other SEN parents and the solicitor and the private i.e. paid for with our money assessments.
Now the rest of you need to know. The ones who don't think my child should be educated with yours. Or, frankly, at all. Or have friends.