To ask what you are supposed to do

[drspouse]

DS has an EHCP.
It's not very good and we have a tribunal coming up.
He has some challenging behaviour. We admit this and we are doing our best.
He moved school in Sept after we looked at 8 new schools, including 4 special schools.
The new school has just permanently excluded him. They have not tried all the suggestions of EP, OT etc and we know this is illegal but it doesn't help with the fact that he now has no school.
They are suggesting he goes to the PRU. I'm sure it's very nice but he has only just started to settle at the new school.
He's 8, in year 3, and loves to play with his teddies. We were told some of the older children at the SEMH schools we looked at had pulled knives on teachers. If there's any child like that at the PRU it will break him.
We both work, I've just been told I can't reduce my hours any further and DH has just started a secondment which will be for a year. The PRU has no after school club. We both have meetings at any/every hour of the working day. Giving up either of our jobs is not an option.
So we can't HE (and we don't want to, and we shouldn't have to, and it would be awful for DS).
What are parents of a child with SEN actually supposed to do? Is the idea that we are both supposed to sit at home with our child and keep him away from other children/schools/the public? Are we not supposed to work? Is the country going to pay us our (fairly high, which is partly why we aren't giving up work) salary for not working?
Note before you suggest it: yes we know we can look at out of area schools. We did, they are included in the ones above. We live quite rurally. We can't move (I have tried to move jobs for years). But we need school for DS NOW. Not in 6 months time after we've moved/fought for a private school place (there are none suitable anyway)/I've lost my job.

They aren't conflicting boney. A child's ehcp states what that child needs and the staffing required to meet it. If other children have different games needs their ehcp will state what they need and how it's provided.

My ds ehcp states 1:1 and scribe in certain situations and lessons. That isn't dependent on if another child needs a laptop, or their own 1:1 or doesn't need any support or needs a reading pen. He has his 1:1 that does what he needs as defined by the specialist teacher advisor and ep.
If he didn't have his 1:1 and didn't produce work then the school can not produce a consequence. They cannot say "well X pupils 1:1 was off and we decided to move ds to utilise her there" and blame ds for the result. Of course at times it happened that staff are moved or are off etc. I don't make a fuss in these occasions and ds does what he can. But they can't expect him to do more than he can because they decide that's what they want.

However, if my ds had his 1:1 and decided to be a little shite and refuse to work (he's 15 so it's entirely possible he may try it one day!) then of course I'd support the school with a consequence.

News article about Baker Small.

The OP has clearly stated they didn't use a timer to give warning of a change of activity. They used a verbal instruction. His plan says timer.

Apologies, I didn't see (and still don't tbh) where the OP says the use of a timer is written into the CP.

Who suffers the consequence of the school not adhering to the statutory requirements of the EHCP?

Not the school because they didn't read the EHCP, or thought it wasn't necessary or they thought they knew better, or because they don't have the resources (because the SEN budget is not ringfenced and they have already spent the money). There is absolutely no way the school could argue that using a timer (as specified in the EHCP) could be against the interests of other pupils, with or without an EHCP).

I'd also say to give the SEN school a chance.

I worked in one briefly and was very impressed. I met DC there from my previous mainstream school who had struggled but were now doing well.

The other point is that when one of the DC 'kicked off' they were largely ignored by the others because the behaviour was nothing worse than their own. The classes continued as normal.

Even if using a timer is not legally enforced why not do it?

The cost of not doing so is huge - to the child who was then excluded, and to his parents.

If your child has been assaulted as a direct consequence of staff not following legal requirements, why are you angry with the child (and therefore think it right and just that the parent gives up work and HE) rather than the member of staff that has failed to follow written legal requirements?

What went wrong with the previous school? You talk quite fondly of them as though he was doing well there, no issues with after school care etc. What changed?

Hello all, I'm back from hosting DS birthday party.
We had a football party in a hall he knows with a small number of friends he's known since Reception and before. He asked to go out when it got too noisy, nobody made him do anything he couldn't manage and he happily took turns with biscuit decorating, waited for the pizza that was half an hour late, and generally was excited but not overwhelmed.

I have said this several times already but just to repeat:
School are not implementing the terms of the current EHCP. They are also ignoring what the OT report, the psych report and the specialist teacher (from the PRU) are saying. Most of those things don't actually cost money, just either a little training or a shift in attitude from "this hasn't worked yet so we give up" to "if we try it properly and listen to the parents and the specialists it might work".
I really don't care if a school doesn't get enough to employ a full time TA. This school said they could so they should. It's more expensive for the rest of you to put him in an (unsuitable) specialist school. So less money for your children's education.
Yes, I'm massively entitled. To my child's legal right to an education. I believe it's also a human right to work.
Both because we are tax payers, and because of the nature of the work we do, the country should want me and DH in work. It is crazy to lose our contributions to society for the sake of a few weeks or hours when we are needed at home. The government says it wants wrap around care but apparently not for the 3% of children with an EHCP nor indeed the other 12% of children with other SEN. That's 1.2 million children.
It's not about lifestyle - it's about giving our DCs what they need. A home. Food. Clothing. Appropriate (in DS case, probably more expensive) activities that develop their talents. And very importantly, private therapy and assessments and prescriptions, without which DS would have no help at all. 84 weeks wait for ADHD diagnosis anyone? Plus the specialist solicitor of course.

We are imminently going to tribunal for the EHCP (so again, the school would have had more money). The LEA is wasting your money defending their illegal EHCP. You should be mad too. Don't forget the children whose behaviour needs aren't met will be the ones costing the criminal justice system in the future. Again, you should be raging.

The wait for an exclusion tribunal is probably about 6 months all told. Again the LEA will waste your money defending this illegal decision.

The PRU is, as a PP said, for children who have a plan to move on. There is no plan.

itsgettingweird
They aren't conflicting boney. A child's ehcp states what that child needs and the staffing required to meet it. If other children have different games needs their ehcp will state what they need and how it's provided.

Don't be so blind of course one EHCP can conflict with another.
They can say how to provide both but if they conflict its just going to go wrong.

As yes legal documents blah blah fucking blah.
Different children, different ehcps, different needs.

The school system can't cope with the requirements of all of this. It desperately needs an overhaul, and we need to stop saying that mainstream school settings can deal with all of the problems.

@drspouse
Why are you so against the PRU? Surely a plan could be formed from there if school are not meeting ds needs.
My dc was in PRU from age 5-11. There was no plan to move on...until secondary...when LEA agreed after 3 panels to pay for indie.
I hated the thought of PRU and dudnt like it on first visit, BUT it kept my dc in education after exclusion when we didn't think that was possible.

Boney - exactly how would using a timer be incompatible with the needs of another child with (or without) an EHCP? Unless the school said it was not 'fair' as other DC have to respond to verbal commands? What if they are HI?

AIBU seems to have lots of understanding and empathy for school staff, for DC with no learning barriers and their parents. And none for DC with special needs or their parents.

I completely, completely agree that it seems this incident has occurred due to the actions of others, and the inability or unwillingness to de-escalate the response in an appropriate way.
But, to clarify, does it specifically mention in the EHCP that they are to use a timer, make sure no-one else sits in your son's seat etc.?

Boney I really don't understand what you mean about ehcp conflicting each other. This is about what a child's ehcp states they need and a school must provide it. If it says quiet low arousal room and school accepts child they have to meet that. If they have another that states busy colourful room (unlikely but just for making a point!) then they 2 children aren't in same room. If school have accepted both children with their own ehcp stating what they need then they have to provide what's on there.

How do you think my school copes? 98 pupils. All with ehcps!

Sad - it is an outrage that your DC was in a temporary emergency setting with no plan for so long (5-11). This is why it is so important that parents receive independent advice from charities like IPSEA, SOS!SEN etc.

KeepOnKeepingOnAgainandAgain

Where did I say that it did?

I have every sympathy for the OP, her child, the teachers, the TA the other pupils and some is even left for the school.

But non of that changes the fact that the system that we have in place doesn't work and needs a massive overhaul when it come to the educational provision for those with a SEND.

Yes the OP has to work within the system but in all honesty I do not see how getting the school to take back her child solves any of the educational problems that are happening.

The school has failed once, getting the school to take him back will just mean that he will be failed again.

Good luck with the tribunal. The schools action is outrageous. That school is named on his EHCP which is legally binding. What have the LA said about the legality of exclusion vs. EHCP? I wrote to dfe a while back, they can’t make the school do anything but I found having the letter from dfe setting out what is and is not legal and what action dfe can take after the tribunal very useful in getting a head to understand they aren’t above the law.

Also, many law firms will tell you that you need a lawyer for a tribunal. Total bullshit. You can self rep and I read something that said lawyers don’t get better results at tribunal for EHCPs!

PRUs get the worst outcomes of any sort of school. Putting a kid with send in a PRU is like putting the penguins in with the lions. Do not agree to the PRU.

@KeepOnKeepingOnAgainandAgain

There was never a question of moving my dc...dc was succeeding, everyone acknowledged that dc would fail in mainstream given the disabilities involved, and with 9 pupils 3 adults in the class dc was thriving.
Maybe our PRU was different though as all the dc there stayed, it was not a revolving door then (though 4 years on it is 1 term only then back to referring school)
We are not England so maybe explains the difference.
But no sadness....dc needed the PRU and has an amazing provision now for secondary which we'd never have got otherwise.

@drspouse

What led up to this exclusion? What other events have happened?

From what I've read, it seems as though you're putting all of the blame onto the schools... what are you doing to help change your sons behaviour?

There is not going to be an overhaul of the system where LAs insist on m/s (with an EHCP) when schools refuse to implement EHCPs and LAs either let them get away with it or are powerless to act.

Even when parents want ss and m/s has excluded, parents still have to go to Tribunal. LAs either do not have suitable ss, they are oversubscribed etc.

There has been a huge increase of HE for SEN DC because there is no provision for our children. Real inclusion costs money. Just like real care in the community - remember that as a reason for closing mental health institutions and how it resulted in the present crisis? A parody of inclusion (ie sitting next to someone who can access the curriculum) is excluding our children.

You can't dismiss all options and then complain. The PRU is the solution in this case, it's specifically designed for situations such as this and will bridge a gap until a more permanent solution can be found. It is extremely difficult to manage children with significantly challenging behaviour in mainstream school. The school has a duty to keep students and staff safe and it seems your son presents a significant risk. It is not ok that he is hurting other pupils or staff. It is likely that the school is putting in place as much support as they can. Experienced and good specialist TAs are hard to come by though and they may not have been able to recruit someone of the calibre you expect. Also recruitment takes time so it may be they don't have someone yet. You must also remember even the best staff are human so will make mistakes. It's exhausting looking after challenging students all day and hard to anticipate every anticidant. Don't be that parent. The one where nothing anyone ever does is good enough. The staff and the school are trying. Turns out its not the right place for your son. He's been offered the PRU as an alternative.
And remember, it's a school not a child care provider for the convenience of you working.

The school cannot cope with the child. They have made that clear.

Maybe they cannot get a TA prepared to do 1 to 1 with this child. What are they supposed to do? It doesn't matter what the law says if it's unenforceable. If they can't get the staff it doesn't matter what the EHCP says, they cannot summon one up from nowhere. It's very unreasonable to expect them to. They can only do their best. They cannot remove support from other children to cater to the needs of one.

A school I taught in was in a similar position, no one was prepared to be a 1 to 1 with a violent child. And no teacher should be forced to take back a child who has attacked her. Sometimes there is no easy solution. Taking legal action is pointless, if the school don't want him and cannot cope with him he will be excluded again.

OP, I suggest a strapping, resilient male au pair from Eastern Europe, and pay him plenty extra. That might sort your current child supervision needs, and with that in place you could request home tutoring,