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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what you are supposed to do

520 replies

drspouse · 11/01/2020 11:00

DS has an EHCP.
It's not very good and we have a tribunal coming up.
He has some challenging behaviour. We admit this and we are doing our best.
He moved school in Sept after we looked at 8 new schools, including 4 special schools.
The new school has just permanently excluded him. They have not tried all the suggestions of EP, OT etc and we know this is illegal but it doesn't help with the fact that he now has no school.
They are suggesting he goes to the PRU. I'm sure it's very nice but he has only just started to settle at the new school.
He's 8, in year 3, and loves to play with his teddies. We were told some of the older children at the SEMH schools we looked at had pulled knives on teachers. If there's any child like that at the PRU it will break him.
We both work, I've just been told I can't reduce my hours any further and DH has just started a secondment which will be for a year. The PRU has no after school club. We both have meetings at any/every hour of the working day. Giving up either of our jobs is not an option.
So we can't HE (and we don't want to, and we shouldn't have to, and it would be awful for DS).
What are parents of a child with SEN actually supposed to do? Is the idea that we are both supposed to sit at home with our child and keep him away from other children/schools/the public? Are we not supposed to work? Is the country going to pay us our (fairly high, which is partly why we aren't giving up work) salary for not working?
Note before you suggest it: yes we know we can look at out of area schools. We did, they are included in the ones above. We live quite rurally. We can't move (I have tried to move jobs for years). But we need school for DS NOW. Not in 6 months time after we've moved/fought for a private school place (there are none suitable anyway)/I've lost my job.

OP posts:
JanusLooksBothWays · 12/01/2020 08:49
  • If they were honest, they'd say "we can't meet his needs" and we'd say "let's try these other things you haven't tried" and they'd try them. Illegally excluding him is not being honest.*

They have said they cannot meet his needs. They do not have the staff or time to do what you want them to do. You cannot force them to. There are other children in the class whose needs would not be being met while all the attention is on your DS. That's not fair on them or the teachers.

Look again at a specialist school for him. This school will not welcome him back.

SoupDragon · 12/01/2020 08:53

Mothers of SEN children aren't entitled to a life outside their kids.

What are the fathers doing then?

drspouse · 12/01/2020 08:53

They have said they cannot meet his needs.
No, they have said they are excluding him. Can you read?

OP posts:
rhowton · 12/01/2020 08:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

hadenoughofthisall · 12/01/2020 08:57

It is a feminist issue in the sense that it is so often women/mothers who shoulder the bulk of care, unpaid emotional labour and admin work to advocate for their child. However, most posts have said one of you could consider giving up work, not that as a woman it absolutely must be you.

I know this isn't helpful but this is what voting for an individualistic, selfish government achieves. A party who disagrees with state intervention and who cuts SEND provision to the bone will never support the level of care your child needs. So telling people they should be angry is all well and good but people ARE, people said things like this would happen and get worse and we're told to stop scaremongering. People heard about the effects another tory government could bring about and STILL voted for them.

You shouldn't be in this position, your child is absolutely entitled to, and deserving of an education and friends and you and your partner deserve to be people in your own rights. Rather than say how important your job is and how grateful society should be for it, just be honest and say you need it for your mental health and well being as staying home or trying to home ed is bloody hard and you don't want to do it.

The thing is that it seems like you have been offered alternate provision but have rejected it - that's your right of course, but the state has fulfilled its obligation to educate your child. By all means keep fighting for the level of education he deserves but he does also need something now. You haven't answered what you plan to do TOMORROW?

I think I'm confused as you talk about his previous school as being brilliant but he isn't there anymore? Also you say the new offers don't include viable wraparound care but don't elaborate on what kind of wraparound support you had up until now? I only keep asking because perhaps there's a solution there if you use a childminder or service you could tap into for support now?

I personally wouldn't want to send my child back to a school that has been very clear in its inability to keep my child safe and happy. I understand they have failed in their duty of care but I wouldn't want to send my son back to give them an opportunity to do it again. So I do think you need to consider what you'll do now. Appealing exclusions is a lengthy process anyway so he couldn't just go back tomorrow, with the best will in the world.

Everyone suggesting you or your partner stop work isn't doing so out of spite or because your child needs to be kept away from theirs by the way - in my experience they are offering advice based on very real lived experience of dealing with an SEN child/ren and knowing the realities of that. Life often throws curveballs - we all deserve better and sometimes the hands we are dealt seem hideously unfair but that's how it goes. In an ideal world, your child should be educated in a safe and positive environment, adequately cared for and supported alongside peers who are also provided with what they need to succeed. With schools struggling on a shoestring, TAs cut left right and centre, teachers not even being informed of the strategies suggested in ECHP plans etc and there being little to no SLT support, that becomes much harder

drspouse · 12/01/2020 08:57

@SoupDragon mainly hiding at work, or leaving (not mine, but I know so many SEN single parents or work widows).
I can't see any of the other SEN parents on here saying their DH gave up work to home educate and I don't know any couples like this IRL.

OP posts:
pinkdelight · 12/01/2020 09:01

they'd say "we can't meet his needs" and we'd say "let's try these other things you haven't tried" and they'd try them.

Perhaps they aren't saying that because you won't listen. Many people have said here that it's clear the school can't meet his needs. You've experienced their inability to meet his needs. Being honest, how is that really going to change?

drspouse · 12/01/2020 09:03

it seems like you have been offered alternate provision but have rejected it
We haven't been offered it. We don't actually think they will have a place in fact, as the local word is they are always full and all the DCs who go there go on managed dual placements.
It was already suggested a while back (as a managed move) and we already looked into it and we don't think it's suitable. For a variety of reasons.

OP posts:
drspouse · 12/01/2020 09:05

pink if they wanted to say that they should a) actually use those words and b) do something organised to meet them even if that's to find somewhere else.
We have loads of suggestions about how they can meet his needs. They won't try them.

OP posts:
hadenoughofthisall · 12/01/2020 09:05

Could you and your husband share time off this week to look after him and try and get him into a PRU for next week?

AllyBamma · 12/01/2020 09:12

You’re actually quite a nasty person aren’t you OP. Have a look at the way you’re speaking to people, most of whom are actually sympathetic and offering genuine suggestions.

You didn’t really come for advice or help or even to vent. You’re just here to push your own agenda and don’t actually give a shit about anyone or anything. How very sad.

Rupertpenrysmistress · 12/01/2020 09:16

What an incredibly sad story there is an 8 year old boy at the Centre of this. Unfortunately our education system is barely fit for purpose even for those children without any additional needs.

I have 2 DC in mainstream education (no additional needs) and have seen the effect on children, parents and teachers of SEND children. I have often wished that my child was not in the same class as a particular SEND child because of the violence against children and teachers, the continued disruption of children having to be evacuated.

However, I can now appreciate how difficult it is to have a child with SEND you are trying to do the best by your son and have been promised certain things to keep him safe and not trigger him but they have not been utilised. I do have alot of sympathy for you however, now is the time to make difficult decisions, parents have to make these everyday for a variety of reasons. I understand you want things to stay as they are but they cannot. This is the situation you are in only you and your DH can make the decisions and changes needed. It sounds like you have no options but to go for PRU. Things will have to change you cannot keep things as they are.

Would you really want your son in a school that does not want him? I can only imagine how damaging it is for your son feeling like he does not fit in and is not welcome. For the benefits of his and your mental health make the decisions and go with it.

Good luck with everything and I do also get your point about feminism as much as we think we live with equal rights by default most still falls to the mum.

drspouse · 12/01/2020 09:21

Those saying we have no option but the PRU and we should just suck it up but that we shouldn't send our DS to a school that isn't any good for him and his mental health... Why would we send him to the PRU if we don't think it's good for him and for his mental health?

OP posts:
hadenoughofthisall · 12/01/2020 09:23

I think the PRU is the only option for right now, if you want him at a school whilst you're figuring out what to do next? You can continue to fight for a place at a SEN school or find a different ms one you prefer, but it gives you breathing room until then as like you said, it can take months to sort out. I'm not sure what else you can do, apart from homeschool or hire a nanny?

hadenoughofthisall · 12/01/2020 09:26

Because it is a permanent exclusion rather than a fixed term one, it's a council issue rather than an school one now. The council has to offer you a place or solution by the 6th day of the exclusion

You say you're not sure of a place being offered; how many days in to the exclusion are you now?

spanieleyes · 12/01/2020 09:28

Because the only alternative you have at the moment is for him to be at home and that won't be good for him either. Unfortunately you have to decide which is the lesser of two evils. Ideally it shouldn't be like that, there should be provision that meets all his needs. But realistically, there isn't.

ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords · 12/01/2020 09:30

Have I missed why you moved your DS to this school?
Yes you have.

Perhaps you could repeat the reasons, as lots of people have been unable to find this information.

Equanimitas · 12/01/2020 09:31

The wait for an exclusion tribunal is probably about 6 months all told.

No, it isn't. By law the governors' panel must meet within 15 school days of being notified of a permanent exclusion. If you choose to take it to the Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal and are asking for reinstatement, the appeal will be held within 6-8 weeks.

arethereanyleftatall · 12/01/2020 09:32

On this thread, there's a lot of 'the government/council have to sort it, it's the law' etc, which is all very well, but what if no one wants to do it?

A TA gets what £13k per year salary. How many people here would be a 121 for a strangers violent child for that? Would you op?

I'm not saying I don't have sympathy for the situation you find yourself in, I do, but unfortunately it's the hand you've been dealt.

Stann86 · 12/01/2020 09:33

And again I ask for the THIRD time why won't you acknowledge the physical and mental health effects it is having on the teachers, staff and the children in the class. The school cannot manage him effectively. They have in your opinion let him down but you may not be privy to all the workings in the school. Put yourself in the position of others. I teach SEN students amongst others. I've been assaulted physically and the students got excluded and rightly so. Your son needs a specialist setting at a young age so that he can be supported and flourish rather than you taken such a position and not being able to see other peoples POV and effects on those. I sympathised with you initially, but you are not listening or acknowledging anything made against your position and saying we are all wrong despite our personal experiences of this. I do understand your position that it is not fair, but sadly there is not a bottomless pit of money, resources or man power and it is clear in the case it cannot be sustained in this school to support your son. Work with the LA and school and other external agencies to get to the solution that is best for you son, not just what you want.

Equanimitas · 12/01/2020 09:35

Regardless of whether your solicitor intervention is effective the school quite simply does not have the resources or expertise to cater for your child so why would you want to send them there.

If the school doesn't have the required expertise, it should say so at the point when it is consulted about being named in the EHCP and/or request funding to buy in any necessary training or advice. If it doesn't have the resources, again that is a matter for it to take up with the LA. If the LA won't play ball, the school should support the parent in applying for judicial review to enforce the child's provision.

Equanimitas · 12/01/2020 09:40

OP, I pointed out upthread that the standard timetable for a SENDIST appeal is 12 weeks. Whilst there are currently delays in registering appeals as they are so busy, and some are being adjourned for the same reason, I don't understand why you say that it takes 6 months?

You need to check whether the PRU could meet the terms of the current EHCP. If not, point out to the LA that a placement there would be unlawful and ask for alternatives. However, they're likely to go for EOTAS which may cause its own logistical problems.

StopMegxit · 12/01/2020 09:43

I’ve been in your position, OP, and to some extent still am.

I won’t bore on about our situation here, but I will say that unfortunately the reality is bleak.

The law says that our children are entitled to an education. The reality is fight after fight with local authorities even to get your child’s needs properly reflected in an EHCP, only to find even if you can achieve this that there just aren’t enough schools with expertise around and even the ones who promise the earth are very often private businesses taking huge amounts of public money to do really not very much good work at all.

It’s very, very hard on families and there are no easy solutions.

We’ve managed over the years, but only just. When DS was young, I had to completely give up a promising career and take on part-time, school hours work because there was absolutely no childcare available for my child and he was out of school between various placements for long periods of time. DH was by far the higher earner so this was the only sensible option.

In later years, I’ve built my ‘new’ career back up to full time hours and DH is self employed and works flexibly.

Both of our careers have been damaged. But I look around at other SN parents we know and we are in a relatively good position. The vast majority of the mothers we know did not work at all while their children were in primary school. And yes, it is always the mothers.

On a practical note, are you considering residential options?

ineedaholidaynow · 12/01/2020 09:49

So where do you think is good for his mental health OP? You seem to have rejected all the schools near you and some further away.

If you live rurally does this mean a lot of the Primary Schools near you are quite small? I know budgets for all schools are tough but smaller schools probably struggle more and they are unlikely to have the facilities/resources that your DC needs.

I sometimes sit on interview panels for TAs for a named child. Most applicants are not specialist TAs, if we are lucky to get any applicants.

There was a family at a local village school who had a DC with similar sounding needs to your DC. They got excluded regularly. The parents kept reiterating their legal rights, understandably. But behind their legal rights was a small child who was obviously not happy at the school. It wasn't that the school were not trying to help the child, but it was a small school building wise, so small classrooms but large class sizes. Very little additional space a child to go to if needed quiet time, apart from areas not much bigger than a cupboard. Resources were very limited. The child kept lashing out, so teaching staff regularly sported bruises and other injuries. They couldn't cope with the noise a large number of children make in a small space, but there were no other rooms this child could go to. There were obviously many other issues too.

I think the parents, in their fight to say that their child had a right to an education at their local school, lost sight of the fact that actually that school, with the best will in the world, was not the right fit for their child.

HoppingPavlova · 12/01/2020 09:54

It may be completely unfair. It may be that you fight this and win. However none of this solves what you are going to do meanwhile come Monday? I’d be concentrating on this rather than wasting time posting about the past (what led to this) and the future (appealing). You need to concentrate on what you’re going to do right now in the present.