To ask what you are supposed to do

[drspouse]

DS has an EHCP.
It's not very good and we have a tribunal coming up.
He has some challenging behaviour. We admit this and we are doing our best.
He moved school in Sept after we looked at 8 new schools, including 4 special schools.
The new school has just permanently excluded him. They have not tried all the suggestions of EP, OT etc and we know this is illegal but it doesn't help with the fact that he now has no school.
They are suggesting he goes to the PRU. I'm sure it's very nice but he has only just started to settle at the new school.
He's 8, in year 3, and loves to play with his teddies. We were told some of the older children at the SEMH schools we looked at had pulled knives on teachers. If there's any child like that at the PRU it will break him.
We both work, I've just been told I can't reduce my hours any further and DH has just started a secondment which will be for a year. The PRU has no after school club. We both have meetings at any/every hour of the working day. Giving up either of our jobs is not an option.
So we can't HE (and we don't want to, and we shouldn't have to, and it would be awful for DS).
What are parents of a child with SEN actually supposed to do? Is the idea that we are both supposed to sit at home with our child and keep him away from other children/schools/the public? Are we not supposed to work? Is the country going to pay us our (fairly high, which is partly why we aren't giving up work) salary for not working?
Note before you suggest it: yes we know we can look at out of area schools. We did, they are included in the ones above. We live quite rurally. We can't move (I have tried to move jobs for years). But we need school for DS NOW. Not in 6 months time after we've moved/fought for a private school place (there are none suitable anyway)/I've lost my job.

By the way, I don't understand the drama about no decent specialist placement within 4 miles. Off the back of this thread, I just checked where my nearest specialist school that deals with ADHD is - 132 miles away.
Even the nearest specialising in ASD is 33 miles. But it's just single sex, so wouldn't take my child.

It's a shit situation. Ds was excluded at risk of expulsion. He escaped and we took him out in mental health grounds. Took 9 months to find a place, I stayed home with him. Refused Pru on basis that he was vulnerable and it wasn't an semh issue but an mld due to ASD and adhd. School takes 50 mins on a shared bus to get to. But it's amazing! And he doesn't mind the travel, it's a tough situation but it is what it is. You can scream and shout all you like but it won't change anything right now. It's all massively underfunded and that's that

Can you not use some of your salary to hire help to cover the interval between schools? Maybe advertise for a SN tutor/nanny, live in if necessary.

We homeschool our child because of these issues - and tbh it sounds no where near as bad as what you have faced.

It means that only DH can work.
I did post on here a while back about things and got ripped apart for not working, not being able to own a house (we rent because one salary doesn’t cover saving for a deposit ) and not predicting my children would have difficulties before I had them .

Almost all of the parents of dc with SEN I know have one full time parent who looks on caring for their dc as their job.
Even if school is going smoothly the breakfast care, after school and holiday care means that working isn't viable and once appointments are factored in.
Seriously relooking at your set up so that one parent worked full time and covered the costs of your household and the other supported the dc might reduce family stress.
It might mean a cheaper house in a different area but the reduction in stress could be significant.
Your current setup hasn't worked for a long time and that doesn't seem likely to change anytime soon. So more drastic life changes may be needed.

You sound so stressed out with this, I'm not in anyway surprised. I know how much time can be spent sorting out provision for SEN. It sometimes feels like my full time job!

If you have an EHCP you are quite a way along the line.

You have several options but only one or two will work if you cannot be at home.

Is there a school with a specialist SEMH unit attached? I'm guessing not as you'd have sourced this already.

Have you talked to your named co-ordinator and the LA? The name and contact should be on the EHCP.

Take control. Ask them to list all the provision including schools and attached units approved and in your area and what might be suitable. Ask also for the Alternative provision list.

It may be that your son could do his schooling for the time being in alternative provision. Our area has many different options for children needing more help, especially with SEMH needs.

For example, out of the 12 or so alternative providers there are three farms (we live rurally) who will provide either 1:1 or supervision in a small group. They do core subjects, life skills, cookery and animal management. They take all ages. The difference is they will find a way to adapt provision to fit your child rather than expecting your child to fit in.

You might have to look into a child minder to cover wrap around care, but transport is included for children up until 16. This could be to drop off and pick up from a child minder.

They should be able to tell you the band he's been awarded and whether it will cover alternative provision. It might be a case of visiting alternative providers ASAP and getting it before panel quickly to either get the next band agreed or to get the existing funding changed over to a new provider.

School obviously feel they can't cope, sadly years ago when there was more money in the school system schools could muster up funding for 1:1 in the classroom. This made all the difference. Now classes barely have funding for a teaching assistant or bare essentials like books.

Talk to the LA, I'm concerned that the school have said PRU for a child with SEMH needs. It may not be at all appropriate. Some PRUs are suitable and geared towards SEMH, some are not. Is there anyone in your locality you can ask?

I should have added as PP have, I also had to give up work as being at work and trying to mange SEN from a distance proved too difficult.

OP I feel incredibly sorry for you. You are understandably incredibly angry that the mainstream school you hoped would mean your child’s unique needs and which allowed you to have meaningful work and provide an income for your family has not worked. There are no suitable alternatives that do Not require you to make significant Detrimental changes to your job, your address or your way life. I can understand your anger and your need to rally against the unfairness of this. You are allowed to be angry.

Eventually when the anger dissipates a little I suspect you will have tomake some tough unpleasant decisions which will alter your family’s lifestyle and probably career path. Lots of posters here have confirmed the need to have a family member at home to meet the challenges of a child with complex needs. There has not been a single poster that has experienced two parents working and successfully meeting their child’s SEN care.

You can appeal against the exclusion. It has to be heard within a certain time frame. Does he have a TA?

What are you going to do today?

Wishing you lots of luck and strength.

To those saying it doesn't take 6 months for an appeal:
First EHCP issued in May
Second, no better, EHCP issued in August.
Tribunal will be in Feb.

Which advice have I not previously considered that has been offered afresh?

You don't seem to be taking in the advice that it doesn't take 6 months to challenge an exclusion. The governors have to meet within 15 days when a challenge is made; and if you make a disability discrimination appeal, it is heard within 6-8 weeks.

Hi, mum of 2 with ADHD. I was in your situation or similar12 years ago. I'm in Ireland so not au fait with UK position. My 5 year old was excluded from mainstream. Horrible horrible situation. The school was underhand. They recommended we send DS to a special school which we reluctantly did. He was too young but school agreed to take him. He did 3 years there. Transport was included. We used au pairs. None of them lasted long. It was very stressful and far from ideal. I know the constant change of carers affected DS. I was breadwinner. Husband worked FT but self employed on low income. Lots of marital difficulties as you can imagine. Both kept working.

I learnt that you don't want your child to be somewhere they don't want him.

For us the special school worked out and he moved back to mainstream.

Keeping him there has been an ongoing project although both mainstream schools have been terrific.

A willing principal is key. Go meet all possible schools/units and speak to principal. Be honest about your child's needs.

I'm a lawyer and that's been good dealing with schools but at the end of the day it's more about relationships and good will.

Could you and your husband both enquire about leave of absence from work/carers leave?

OP I think you’re upset for your son and upset and frustrated for yourself. I get the feeling that your life at 50 is not what you expected or planned and is getting more complex based on your child’s increasing needs. You are entitled to feel cheated by your circumstances, however because of your child’s needs you will have to adapt and change your and your husband’s lives in order to give your son and daughter their best lives. If you’re unwilling to do that, then it’s your children that will suffer.

As for you both working part-time, if you both worked 0.6 - one Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and the other Wednesday, Thursday, Friday - then you would only need one day of care.

Good luck.

It may be helpful for both of you to join a support group.

Can you and your husband share care of DS. Both of you do a 4 day week. That leaves 3 days for nanny/carer. I wanted hubby to do that but he didn't want to. We were young then and still had some maturing to do.

Whatever your jobs life happens and employers know this. Approach your HR departments with well worked out proposals.Sabbaticals, special leave, parental leave.Keep your jobs but be clever about it, maybe scale back for a while, take turns eto.

Reduce stress and disharmony.

Try not to panic.

I work from home one day a week. Invaluable as am called in or need to go in for school meetings very regularly.

Do you have other kids?

It really is a marathon not a sprint.

Good luck.

Echoing what @DrSpouse says regarding SENDIST. For us appeal submitted April, date given for appeal early September, this was adjourned five days before because of lack of court space (entirely down to the huge increase in numbers of appeals) and new date given mid December. 77% of Tribunal hearings are adjourned before you even get there and a new date given.

It's for pupils who are either on dual registration or who already have a plan.

That’s not always the case

We had absolutely no plan when ours went into the PRU

Everyone was out of options. The PRU were instrumental in us getting a plan together

Can you speak to them about your child before he goes there? We had a meeting and they were much more skilled in asking about triggers

They were also instrumental in getting us help to change “would benefit from” into “must have” at ECHO tribunal as their evidence was highly regarded

OP have you found a temporary solution for this week?

For those not understanding that tribunal hearing can be six months from the issue of the first draft (even without adjournment), there is a huge difference between written guidelines of time scale and reality.

In order to appeal you need a finalised plan. The LA know this and will delay issuing a finalised plan. So, they will issue a woefully inadequate first draft. Parents then have 15 days to respond. You need to put in writing that you disagree but request the plan to be finalised so that you can appeal. If you try to work with the LA and meet with them to discuss amendments or submit parental response with suggested amendments they will then issue a 2nd draft after 2 weeks, often only changing a handful of words. Then parents have another 15 days to respond. If you don't ask for the plan to be finalised, the LA can make minor amendments and then issue a 3rd draft after another 2 week wait. Parents then have another 15 days to respond and so on. This is a deliberate delaying tactic to prevent parents accessing Tribunal because the vast majority of appeals are successful.

After a plan is finalised, the school have 2 months to implement it. If there is any ambiguity eg 'may benefit from ...' it will be considered reasonable for the school to not give the provision. This is why you need to go to Tribunal before you even have grounds to start JR proceedings.

An equivalent may be a parent with dementia with challenging behaviour. The care system is strapped for cash and staff are poorly paid. This does not mean that people with no savings or equity in property are left with no placement because they have high needs, with family having to give up work and rely on CA whilst caring 24/7. Challenging behaviour is not renamed as 'violence'. People with dementia are not placed in temporary unsuitable placements ie sectioned and placed on a locked psychiatric ward or put in prison - even if their challenging behaviour looks the same as the violence as a person without dementia or known mental illness.

Just because an unsuitable PRU is all that is offered pending tribunal (par for the course) does not make it a suitable placement.

Unfortunately some primary school take SEN students and don't have staff specially trained to deal with them, the extra funding for 1-2-1 won't help if the classroom assistant isn't experienced or trained to deal with your child needs

A close friend has just walked this path and gave up on mainstream schools and chose a sen school who provide transport, luckily its worked out and her child is thriving at the new school

Sometimes your options are limited but you have to go with the best one available, in a rural area you should get transport provided

I can believe the timescale. My daughters took nearly 2 years to be written in the first place and is quite rubbish. The only reason it got done well was because I kept cc-ing the director of childrens services and my MP

What happened this morning OP?

For us appeal submitted April, date given for appeal early September, this was adjourned five days before because of lack of court space (entirely down to the huge increase in numbers of appeals) and new date given mid December. 77% of Tribunal hearings are adjourned before you even get there and a new date given

That will be in part because the tribunal closes in August.

The 77% of adjournments includes those that are adjourned at the request of the parties or because they are not ready for hearing. Adjournments solely due to lack of judge/court time are at a considerably lower rate.

How are things today OP? Any developments?

Solicitor calling tomorrow. We are seeing the PRU tomorrow, DH is trying to make me keep an open mind but we both agree he can't go to a temporary placement without a long term plan of some kind. They don't have a space now but will do shortly. Neither of us can cover school pickup every day long term (and despite all the nay sayers, it would be bananas to take a 100% cut in salary for one or two school pickups a week) but he has more AL left at the moment due to when his leave year runs so he can do a few weeks.