To ask what you are supposed to do

[drspouse]

DS has an EHCP.
It's not very good and we have a tribunal coming up.
He has some challenging behaviour. We admit this and we are doing our best.
He moved school in Sept after we looked at 8 new schools, including 4 special schools.
The new school has just permanently excluded him. They have not tried all the suggestions of EP, OT etc and we know this is illegal but it doesn't help with the fact that he now has no school.
They are suggesting he goes to the PRU. I'm sure it's very nice but he has only just started to settle at the new school.
He's 8, in year 3, and loves to play with his teddies. We were told some of the older children at the SEMH schools we looked at had pulled knives on teachers. If there's any child like that at the PRU it will break him.
We both work, I've just been told I can't reduce my hours any further and DH has just started a secondment which will be for a year. The PRU has no after school club. We both have meetings at any/every hour of the working day. Giving up either of our jobs is not an option.
So we can't HE (and we don't want to, and we shouldn't have to, and it would be awful for DS).
What are parents of a child with SEN actually supposed to do? Is the idea that we are both supposed to sit at home with our child and keep him away from other children/schools/the public? Are we not supposed to work? Is the country going to pay us our (fairly high, which is partly why we aren't giving up work) salary for not working?
Note before you suggest it: yes we know we can look at out of area schools. We did, they are included in the ones above. We live quite rurally. We can't move (I have tried to move jobs for years). But we need school for DS NOW. Not in 6 months time after we've moved/fought for a private school place (there are none suitable anyway)/I've lost my job.

I don't think anyone can give you the answer you want to hear.

This seems to be the case.

However, regardless of the aggressiveness of some of the OPs posts, this is such a emotive and complicated issue. Her son has the right to be educated and have his needs met. However, every single other child has the same rights and staff members have the right to work in a safe environment too.

I had a child in my class who was incredibly violent to just about everyone, including me. I, and his TA, followed his EHCP to the letter but he still put me in hospital when he threw a chair at me when he didn't like the work he was set. There were many, many other incidents and we had 6 children whose parents removed them from the school because they were too anxious and scared to keep coming. Their needs were most definitely not being met. Situations like this are hell on earth.

There is no easy solution to this, for anyone involved. I feel for this little boy at the centre of it all.

Oh and gs school have already talked to us about term exclusions as his behaviour has escalated to violence. I feel so so sad that he gets like this, for himself and those that are around him. So working with the school weve managed to fend off the threat of term exclusions for now. But I understand the school is under tremendous pressure with funding but are doing their utmost to keep him in school and for him to thrive. They have been amazing.

I would also like to add that I was really fond of this lad and I was upset when he was permanently excluded.

You've pursued adoption but your ds is being looked after by everyone else except his parents?

In fairness, it’s hard to understand how utterly exhausting parenting by adoption is, I can really understand the reluctance to be home 24/7 with your child - not because you don’t love them but because it’s totally relentless in a way you just don’t get if you’ve not been there. And you’re not allowed to say that because you adopted your child, you knew what you were letting yourself in for and actively pursued parenthood. After 9 weeks of my two literally hanging on to me 24 hours a day, I was happy for them to be in school. If they couldn’t even in school my DH and I would need to split care for them because I absolutely need to split work and care because I couldn’t do it full time. I love them with every fibre of my being but can’t meet their needs on my own. That’s what I meant by exploring what would happen if adopted children can’t cope with school. Often one parent full time isn’t possible because you just don’t have the personal capacity so really creative, usually patchwork care is needed - and that’s before you throw in the need to be educated. I’m so very thankful for my kids very accommodating, supportive school.

it's kind of you to offer suggestions but do you honestly think we've not asked about or are not aware of all specialist schools within travelling distance?

Hence why I said “not specialist”. Fucking ironic you’re pulling other people up on not reading....

Crack on champ.

Child has to be put before career. I don’t know any family of a child with significant SEN where both parents work full time. It just isn’t feasible.

If it were me, I’d either stop working, change job, move house. Anything to find him the right school.

Perhaps make your child your priority, over your very important meetings...

WE BOTH WORK PART TIME.

Jellycats of course it must be so so different but I probably misunderstood what you meant by the prospective parents having been fully vetted and made aware of potential childs needs. I'm probably being very simplistic here but if OP wants wraparound care for her son that means so she can keep a full time job down plus after school/school holiday care etc. Why would that lifestyle be suitable for a child with needs. Most likely massively stepped over the line with this point. Any child, wether birth or adoption can have challenges and as parents we should be willing to adjust our lives accordingly not expect the world to adapt to us! Some kids can cope with full time school then after school 5 days a week and some it just blows their minds so need a more hands on parent. Not necessarily full time parent. But then why not? Isnt the earliest years of a childs life the most important in their development emotionally? Parents should be around for some of that surely x

OP - it's a shame that you feel the need to resort to shouty capitals.

I get that you're frustrated. I really do.

But you've had a lot of good advice on this thread and you seem to be batting it away, unconsidered.

The OP and her partner both work part time - and yes needs are assessed at placement but those needs can significantly change over time, the needs of adopted children can be incredibly unpredictable and a little if the right type of support can hugely make a difference to whether they stabilise or not.

One of the hardest places to be is when the adjustments you’ve made as a couple are no longer enough and you’re realistically looking at stopping work altogether. Both from a “what happens to my career” point of view and “can I actually cope”, I know many many parents make that decision and live in truly trying circumstances, I cant blame the OP for resisting that option as far as possible.

Yes children need a secure home, part of that security is financial and emotional stability. I’m assuming if both parents are part time, they don’t need 5 days a week wrap around but will need it at some points, so flexible availability for a child that needs predictability. Not an easy ask.

Which advice have I not previously considered that has been offered afresh?

@JacquesHammer I did not see where you said mainstream. Where is this magic school, maybe YOU can tell ME the location?

I previously started a thread on which I asked how to deal with two school runs with DD (5, tired, not coping) and DS (SEN). I was told we had to put them both in breakfast and after school club and send DS in a taxi because "lots of children with SEN cope just fine". Funny how everyone has changed their tune now.

Also, everything that @jellycatspyjamas said. I read about other DCs with SEN who can spend hours in their bedrooms/do a word search/read a book on their own, with wistful longing.

Jelly your pots are excellent.

I did not see where you said mainstream. Where is this magic school, maybe YOU can tell ME the location?

If you’d care to re-read my first post you’ll quite clearly see I said “not specialist”. I think the word you’re looking for is “sorry”.

Given I’m still heavily involved in the school following my daughter having 9 happy years there. Including the 60% of her class with SEN, you’ll forgive me if I don’t now share. You declined the offer which was absolutely fine, I think we should leave it at that.

Well the more I read, the more it seems your choice of location to live is the biggest problem. There are no local schools who can meet his needs. You thought you had one, but obviously they can't, or you wouldn't be in this situation.

If you can't /won't send him to any of the schools within a 4 mile radius, he can't travel more than 4 miles, you can't home educate and can't use boarding school, then the location needs to change to one near schooling options.

But that's not going to happen by Wednesday. Contact nanny agencies and see if any have someone available who is able to do short term live out care. At least that way you wont risk yours or your DHs jobs.

YANBU to be upset and frustrated on your son's behalf though it sounds like you don't give much of a shit about anyone your son has assaulted which is just awful

Oh and I dont think you sound entitled, I think you sound at the end of your tether and raging about the whole thing, which is all very shitty.

You have my sympathy.

I moved house after my dc was excluded....so they could attend the suggested PRU.
I assumed it was what any parent would do

If you and your partner only WORK PART TIME why do you need a fulltime school placement and additional wrap around care? Why one or other of you not be available before 9am, and after 3pm?????

Perhaps your ds needs you as a PP has said already 🤷‍♀️

Jellycats thank you for explaining and sorry for jumping to conclusions. We were assessed to be dgs kinship guardians and passed all the assessments. As it was it went well for my daughter who was never to blame anyway they just wanted a placement secured in case family court decided differently. Long story and dont want to hijack this thread. I'm just super sensitive to the needs of children. I'm sure OP is a great parent and yes it's awful he can no longer be helped at his last school. I'll keep reading this post with interest and hope their is a resolution that will benefit everyone xx

I read about other DCs with SEN who can spend hours in their bedrooms/do a word search/read a book on their own, with wistful longing.

I feel your pain, we’re three years in with similar aged kids. If I’m not physically there, they cope ok. If I am, they both want me as close as possible all of the time - literally walking across the room (still in eyesight) can be too much.

I do think adoption adds a whole other layer to SEN because options that might be open to some families simply aren’t to ours. I have very limited choices for childcare that they can cope with, they both need predictability, They will never cope with wrap around care - it’s breakfast club or childminder not both and the rest of the week kept quite small. And the issues don’t always appear in school because they both mask like their lives depend on it, which means epic meltdowns at home along with ptsd, so flashbacks and triggers that you have no way of predicting because they often don’t know what’s triggered and why.

It’s very very hard going, and sensitive support from schools literally is the difference between coping or not, for child and parent. I continue to work with the support of an incredibly flexible employee who truly gets how unpredictable my life can be, and by running my own business but even then it’s a huge challenge.

Kids with attachment issues, developmental trauma etc make special demands on parents. It’s ok that the OP doesn’t want to, or simply can’t care for her child full time. I couldn’t either.

@MrShue, the problem with your post is that, as i pointed out, it doesn't take 6 months to deal with a Tribunal appeal. Check it out for yourself if you still doubt it. And no-one “should of” done anything.

OP, I know it isn't ideal, and I haven't read every page of this thread so don't know if someone has already suggested it but have you looked at any residential SEN schools? It means you could look further afield as you wouldn't be making the journey every day and it might allow your ds to settle

I'm guessing the OP and her DH are in healthcare or education where the jobs are rigid even when part time. I teach on a 0.6 contract and I still need wraparound. Friends with full time accountancy (for instance) jobs have a lot more flexibility.

phiney no but in that ballpark. My job requires core hours availability and DH commutes which turns a half day into a full day so his part time is full days. I've already asked for more half days and been told it's not going to happen. I actually have two half days and I am never going to get more. Both our jobs are in specific locations (for the hard of reading, I already said I've been applying for other jobs for years) also so it's not like teaching or healthcare where there's a need nationwide.

Yes, I have RTFT.

1. No school permanently excludes lightly. It is a massive decision with a massive amount of regret and a massive amount of paperwork and cost. This is multiplied several times if a child has an EHCP.

2. You must be able to appeal against the decision within 6 - 8 weeks. If, as you say, the EHCP requirements have not been met, you will have strong grounds for appeal.

3. I would be astounded if, having been PE on Friday, a place in the PRU was available on Monday. In my experience it takes much longer for alternative provision to be set up. School must set work for the first week or so. They have three days to complete the EX1 paperwork and that is when the LA become involved.

4. School may have said they can meet the EHCP. We have done so in the past. Then the 1:1 support went off sick and we had no-one to cover - we drafted in a TA but this caused massive upheaval for the student. The original 1:1 then resigned. What were we supposed to do?