To ask what you are supposed to do

[drspouse]

DS has an EHCP.
It's not very good and we have a tribunal coming up.
He has some challenging behaviour. We admit this and we are doing our best.
He moved school in Sept after we looked at 8 new schools, including 4 special schools.
The new school has just permanently excluded him. They have not tried all the suggestions of EP, OT etc and we know this is illegal but it doesn't help with the fact that he now has no school.
They are suggesting he goes to the PRU. I'm sure it's very nice but he has only just started to settle at the new school.
He's 8, in year 3, and loves to play with his teddies. We were told some of the older children at the SEMH schools we looked at had pulled knives on teachers. If there's any child like that at the PRU it will break him.
We both work, I've just been told I can't reduce my hours any further and DH has just started a secondment which will be for a year. The PRU has no after school club. We both have meetings at any/every hour of the working day. Giving up either of our jobs is not an option.
So we can't HE (and we don't want to, and we shouldn't have to, and it would be awful for DS).
What are parents of a child with SEN actually supposed to do? Is the idea that we are both supposed to sit at home with our child and keep him away from other children/schools/the public? Are we not supposed to work? Is the country going to pay us our (fairly high, which is partly why we aren't giving up work) salary for not working?
Note before you suggest it: yes we know we can look at out of area schools. We did, they are included in the ones above. We live quite rurally. We can't move (I have tried to move jobs for years). But we need school for DS NOW. Not in 6 months time after we've moved/fought for a private school place (there are none suitable anyway)/I've lost my job.

No, they have said they are excluding him. Can you read?

I can read. Can you keep a civil tongue in your head?

They are excluding him because they cannot meet his needs and he is a danger to others. Tough but true. You flailing about on mumsnet and being rude to everyone who offers a solution shows us what the poor school are having to deal with.

You are that nightmare parent. Pull your neck in, learn some manners. You sound awful, frankly.

I've gone back and forth on whether to respond to this so have given it a lot of thought. I appreciate I'm fortunate not to have a SEN child but my best friend does and another friend is a TA so I do understand some of the challenges. However, I don't think I've ever come across someone as unwilling as the OP to actually try and work with the authorities to find the right solution - no solution is perfect for all parties in this situation but the OP seems very unwilling to make any concessions, just constantly repeating that "it's the law". I'm afraid you are his parent, when you gave birth to him you made a commitment to support him whatever the cost (as we all do when we have kids) - sorry but you have to do what's right for your child not for your and your career and clearly that school is not right for him. From another perspective, him being in that school is clearly not right for the staff or other children either. I'd be furious if my child was put at risk because another parent insisted on her violent child being in the school so her career etc wasn't inconvenienced in any way.

I do sympathise for your situation. Your Son does seem unable to cope in mainstream school and one of the reasons is because his current school is not following the details of his EHCP. It must be frustrating for you as it is possible that he could thrive there if he receives the right support. You mentioned he was excluded for 9 days in total last term. Were these occasions also when the EHCP were not being followed? Did these exclusions take place all within the last Summer term? It's not even a funding problem but more that teaching staff are not fully aware of and not following the needs stated in the EHCP.

In your position I would take the PRU place for the time being. You have said the PRU does not have afterschool provision and is one of the reasons you are against it. I would reiterate what others have said in that PRUs will have experienced staff and will be able to offer your Son 1-1 support he needs. It will more than likely be a much calmer and less stressful place for him than his current mainstream school. In view of the trauma he has been through I would say either you or your husband must do whatever is needed to care for him after his school day. He is crying out for help and this is what parents have to do. Either or both should request emergency leave and if this is not possible then sign off work with stress. The legalities of whether his current school were breaking rules will be looked into but for now you need to get something in place for your Son and as you say HS is not an option.

It's hard to exclude an sen child but not impossible and with 9 other exclusions in one term the sen and violent behaviour can be looked at. It's complex but to say a dc with sen can't be excluded is incorrect. Why would you want a school who can't cope with your ds to take him back? Because it's convenient for work? They have a responsibility to keep the children and staff safe, your dc doesn't trump that.

As a parent our dc come first and sometimes that means taking a massive financial hit. My friend has just given up work because her dd has been diagnosed with leukaemia and needs daily hospital visits. Her treatment is over 2 years. It's crap but that's life sometimes. Your son needs you as you're the one on his side so yes that may mean changing jobs or giving up work for a period of time.

Pru may work as class sizes are small and more able to give 1:1 care so don't rule it out.

I really hope you find a solution that works.

Yes OP, mothers are put on this earth to stay with their children. That’s the biological fact of it.

Why did you have a child when you are so inflexible? I’ve pretty much given up my job entirely to be at home with my child (no SEN).

If my child was at your son’s school I would be pleased that they have taken the right decision to remove him as a danger to other pupils and his teachers. I’m pleased that schools out there WILL take this step. I’m not “enraged” at all.

I’m sorry for your son, and I hope you make the right decision for him.

If you adjusted your attitude and tone in your posts I’m inclined to believe the responses would be somewhat different.

The other thing here is that it doesnt have to be you that takes a step back from work. Surely your DH has the same abilities to support your child in the right way in a way schools up until now clearly havent.

Could you split the extra support required between the two of you? With the help of the PRU or whatever setting is recommended.

OP
I think your huge frustration at the way the system actually works as opposed to how it should work has boiled over on this thread.

It isn’t fair
It isn’t right
Your DS deserves better
All DC with SEND deserve better
Their families deserve better

However, right now you are where you are.

People on this thread are suggesting pragmatic approaches because that is the only real option. You can rail against the system, you can refer to the law but none of that will get your DS into school on Monday.

Maybe the PRU will be nothing more than stopgap to give you time to work out the best options, maybe it will be better than that.

@buddhababy2019

I felt the same way reading this. (Sibling with SEN, physical disability and chronic disease).

I’ve never come across a parent so adamant that the state/education system/government should provide them with the same ability to live and work as if their child had no additional needs.

There is an understanding amongst most parents of children with SEN, disability and illness that you do not in fact retain the ‘human right to work FT in a career of your choice’ and that as parents of children with additional needs you put theirs before your own.

OP’s DC sounds particularly difficult as she admits herself he’ll basically ‘break’ any adult trying to deal with him who isn’t her...but she’s not willing/able/feels she shouldn’t have to, step back from her career.

Every suggestion is met with a ‘I can’t possibly’ and a quotation of ‘it’s the law’.

Me: If you DC is putting other children in danger every day and hurting/being violent toward them it’s not unreasonable that the school exclude. Every child in the class is entitled to be physically safe in a classroom environment regardless of SEN’s present.
OP: It’s against the law to exclude him until they’ve tried absolutely everything- regardless of how long that takes or how many other kids get hurt

🤔 Not sure OP would feel that way were it her DS getting hurt by another child. It’s also unlawful for children to be put it active danger in a classroom so I’m not sure what OP expects.

Maybe the child is trying to communicate that what he needs/wants is more time with or support from his mum?

It seems to me that you are concerned about the possible children with knives at the PRU (I say "possible" because it is hearsay) and that this will frighten your DS as he likes to play with teddies.

However, your DS has been excluded for violence. I am not saying that with the right interventions he would not have been violent, BTW. Just that he was, in fact, excluded for violence.

Can't you see the point that many PP have made about this? That your DC doesn't flourish in violent situations, but because he is violent (sometimes) other DC and teaching staff should just suck it up?

I can also not find the reason why your child left the previous school which you liked. I have read the whole thread and cannot find it.

Please would you say again what the reason was?

i think the first school was not meeting his needs and they moved their Son to the current one as they confirmed they could. Drsprouse correct me if I'm wrong though.

There is an understanding amongst most parents of children with SEN, disability and illness that you do not in fact retain the ‘human right to work FT in a career of your choice’ and that as parents of children with additional needs you put theirs before your own.

But that isn't right. I have a dd with SEND. We aren't at this stage yet, but we could be in the future. She can't do wrap around care, so we've reduced hours at financial and career detriment.

Can you not see how angry and frustrated you would be to have everyone around you breezing along, their children's needs being met at school, moving along with their careers so they feel fulfilled?

Yes we know that we have to make sacrifices, but it's heartbreaking when it's only you as the parent of an SEND child. I have been suicidal from it. Without work we can't pay our mortgage, we move to rental with no security (not great with an ASD child), we lose opportunities for other DC- like cubs/scouts, swimming lessons, trips.

Don't have a go at us for being angry that we are being utterly let down by the system.

I’ve read the whole thread.

My nephews are both high needs. My brother went to war with his local authority and school and it was as if he used one of his sons (violent aggressive outbursts) as a test case to push the school and local authority into giving his son an education.

It was hell. For years. They had such a terrible time. The school absolutely hated them as a family. My bother was difficult, argumentative, unbending. He knew his rights. He knew what the school SHOULD be doing. The school resented him enormously. He went to a tribunal to get all this.

His son stayed at the local school and had a fairly rough ride. Occasionally fine mostly not great. He did not have friends or a peer group. Parents viewed him as dangerous and violent. Sounds like your school that’s just excluded him. It’s not going to change even though they should.

He went to a specialist residential school from age 11 and he absolutely blossomed and thrived.

My SIL has to give up work. They downsized.

We live in a hugely imperfect world. Don’t let your DS be a test case because you know your rights.

drspouse

but that we shouldn't send our DS to a school that isn't any good for him and his mental health...

Isn't this what you are doing by sending him back to a school that can't/won't meet his needs?

@drspouse
I have up work to care for my dc after exclusion.
As did the other 2 parents in the situations given in PP.
We are all adoptive parents- if I remember correctly you are too.

Is there any element of adoption issues overlapping here and clouding your judgement.

I read the anger you have, but there are many questions you have not answered ( I can't see why your d's left his 'perfect school' but you refuse to expand) and all you are now doing is being rude.

I understand your anger and upset but you are not being productive at all.

About the old school, the op wrote this: The previous one said they "couldn't teach him" and he "wasn't coping". He loved it there. They also weren't following NC (e.g. they weren't using phonics

@ClownsandCowboys So frustrating and a lonely place at times. I work in a pmld school and have so much respect for the parents. You have made the sacrifices you know are necessary for your child.

At the beginning of the thread, the op said the previous school said that they couldn't cope with her son and couldn't teach him.. she also pointed out that they weren't following the curriculum and weren't teaching phonics.

'Couldn't teach him' and 'he wasnt coping'
Does not explain how he lost his school place at all.
What made him leave? Did the school expell him, or was it the annual review and school said nope not having him back in September as 'we are not coping'.
School can say all they want we are not coping - until the LEA decides that the child cannot continue at the school it's just hot air.
So what happened??????

Great post had enough. I've avoided commenting on my personal opinion of the OPs attitude because for all the reasons you've posted I understand why she feels that way.
I've been there and felt that. Luckily I'm the other side now and can reflect the fighting for the wrong thing was waste of time and emotional resources. But I'd never tell another parent not to stand up for what's right. Because we all need to in some respect before we have decades of this rather than initially just another 5 years.

From what I can see the parents moved him through choice to a school that they felt would be more suitable.

We moved him when the old school said he had to go. We didn't want him at a school that didn't want him. We didn't realise that no school would want him. We knew they couldn't be bothered to work him at his academic level.

I'm not sure what part of "if we don't work we can't afford assessments, therapy or a solicitor" isn't clear.

Bud be very careful with wording. Not all parents actually give birth.

I'm sorry, and haven't rtft. I work with sen kids and from what I've gleaned, you're not being realistic. The state canhelp, but being an sen parent does require sacrifice of both time and money.
I'm sorry to sound unsympathetic, but I see what people go through.

Is this the case that's currently being discussed in the media? (daily mail online)

Also OP what do you think happens to the people that can't afford the assessments, therapy etc. Sounds like you want better or more specialised treatment than them because of your earning potential?