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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think there’s no justification for eating meat and dairy any more?

999 replies

AnnoyingVegan · 09/01/2020 21:11

People are educated now. People know that eating meat and dairy is disastrous for the planet. People know it’s causing an unprecedented climate crisis. People know it causes untold cruelty to animals.

So why are people still doing it? There is a vegan substitute for virtually every meat and dairy product you can think of. What is going on here?

The number of people I’ve seen on social media breaking their hearts over Australia shooting wild camels and horses because they drink too much water while still eating beef blows my mind.

OP posts:
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AnyMinuteNow · 12/01/2020 12:04

fascicle
AnyMinuteNow
^Babies have died as a result of vegans forcing their babies to adopt their morals. True. Also babies found with bone formation of those of an 80 year old due to vegan diet. Vegans have been experimenting on babies, and they moan about animal abuse. Good god!

..yes, there are cases where growth rates and failure to thrive is directly linked to trying to raise babies on vegan diets (see previous link).^

You responded with

Still waiting for evidence of the above, in the light of the point I made that any cases of which I am aware do not involve balanced, nutritionally appropriate vegan diets and/or parents seeking medical attention when their child does not thrive. I can see nothing about the cases you mention in your previous link.

So which cases are you talking about?

Specifically, I quoted a large chunk from a news article, I also provided a link, which I again referenced in my last post. Thats where it is (but there's cases everywhere from a quick search)

Emotive language, swearing at posters and conflating poor animal welfare with peoples pleasure is a revolting way to treat others, even if you believe this yourself Grr

You seem to think that if you keep repeating emotive words like murder, and babies, and torture you will eventually beat others down, but you won't.

One reason is that none of those words relate to the discussion of veganism.

Its animals, not babies
Its slaughter, not murder
Animals kill each other painfully and with great fear because they have to eat meat to survive.

Humans are also evolved to extract nutritional benefit from meat to survive as part of a wide dietary need, they don't hunt down animals any more as a rule, but humanely end their lives.

Farming practices are required to operate under the welfar act, if they don't there are consequences.

If the welfare of animals act is insufficient, in your opinion, make your noise there.

As I said before, because of some vegans shouting at others with words that don't work in this discussion, but simply used to hit others with, you have just served to swerve more away, rather than opened ears.

Banging on about the way meat production treats animals is a reason to hit the meat production industry hard. No to beat the consumers with falsehoods and attempt to guilt.

I don't feel guilt for eating meat to stay well, or knowing that children need animal fats and proteins, feeding it to them either.

I am also on the side of protecting animals from harm wherever possible.

So, taste (although often really good), mouth pleasure, torture, murder, babies, and so on are all words that are irrelevant in this discussion.

Those of you apparently having a word with animals Confused 'tell' them to be nice to each other and stop killing each other, and thereby die?

IsAnybodyListening · 12/01/2020 12:07

One of my vegan friends fainted at my house several years ago. The doctor advised a change of diet, and told her she needed to introduce meat for the sake of her health. She didn't, is now infertile, massively underweight (anorexic but doesn't admit it) and looks 15yrs older than she is.

Another vegan friend insisted her DC's were raised on meat and dairy-whilst she could no longer eat them, she also had a myriad of health problems she attributed to her long term vegan lifestyle.

differentnameforthis · 12/01/2020 12:09

@iamadalek2

Quorn for example is made by fermentation, fermented food are not good for me, they cause terrible tummy and bowel pain, plus other things I will not go into.

Vegan food can also contain a lot of nuts, some of which are also high in fodmaps.

squeekums · 12/01/2020 12:14

I believe a lot of flesh eaters feel guilty about it

Speak for yourself. I have no issue with how we eat in this house
I dont feel guilt for feeding my family tasty food

To be fair to SaaauuusierGrrr, she's not talking the legal definition of murder
Well words have definitions, she dont get to change it up as she sees fit.
It upsets me when a murder victim is compared to damn FOOD FFS

SciFiRules · 12/01/2020 12:15

@SaaauuusierGrrr
How much choice does a wild cow get on impregnation? Calm down and have a bacon sandwich!

differentnameforthis · 12/01/2020 12:18

I believe a lot of flesh eaters feel guilty about it which is why we don't like vegans. I curl up inside with guilt when I'm with my vegan friend.

My friend is mostly vegan because of health issues, and we manage to support each other! There is no guilt to be had by either of us.

fascicle · 12/01/2020 12:27

TreestumpsAndTrampolines and bingbangbing In a previous post I said:

Still waiting for evidence of the above, in the light of the point I made that any cases of which I am aware do not involve balanced, nutritionally appropriate vegan diets and/or parents seeking medical attention when their child does not thrive.

All of the links you have posted are as per my summary above. None of these parents were following proper advice or attempting to feed their children nutritionally appropriate vegan diets. All of the parents were neglectful - not only were the vegan diets completely inappropriate, they failed to seek/act upon medical advice when their children did not thrive or gain weight as expected.

These cases are not representative of age appropriate, balanced vegan diets and all of them involved parents failing to seek/act upon medical help.

AnyMinuteNow
Specifically, I quoted a large chunk from a news article, I also provided a link, which I again referenced in my last post. Thats where it is (but there's cases everywhere from a quick search)

Please can you repost the link which you are referring to regarding specific cases - I couldn't find it.

Emotive language, swearing at posters and conflating poor animal welfare with peoples pleasure is a revolting way to treat others, even if you believe this yourself Grr

This appears to be addressed to me. Clearly not based on anything I have said.

AllergicToAMop · 12/01/2020 12:32

@fascicle the last bit was actually obviously addressed to SaaauuusierGrrr

iamadalek2 · 12/01/2020 12:32

@differentnameforthis yesyou don't have to eat quorn to be a vegan/vegetarian. I don't eat quorn either but still managing to survive

iamadalek2 · 12/01/2020 12:35

@Isanybodylistening

"One of my vegan friends fainted at my house several years ago. The doctor advised a change of diet, and told her she needed to introduce meat for the sake of her health. She didn't, is now infertile, massively underweight (anorexic but doesn't admit it) and looks 15yrs older than she is."

Eh it sounds more like your friend fainted because she's anorexic!! . Totally different issue to bring a vegan.

AllergicToAMop · 12/01/2020 12:37

Ffs @iamadalek2 go and google fodmap. I did and I can clearly see that it is incredibly restrictive and imo complicated diet.
Stop digging into a person with health issues

my2bundles · 12/01/2020 12:39

Because I'm not prepared to inflict a vegan unhealthy diet of processed rubbish on my children's growing bodies and developing brains.

WeeSleekitTimerousMoosey · 12/01/2020 12:41

IsAnybodyListening

I know a woman who is a recovering anorexic now vegan, and at the other end of the scale a couple of yoyo dieters who are now vegan having been on numerous 'trendy' diets in the past. None of these people have healthy attitudes to food and veganism is just the latest incarnation of their problems. They are all very vulnerable to being sucked into dietary fads.

AnyMinuteNow · 12/01/2020 12:44

Both my pp were clear.

I think you are missing key points, as you have with both my link and my comment to another poster which you have taken as being directed at you despite me boldening an abbreviation of their name, which another pp has also pointed out.

iamadalek2 · 12/01/2020 12:56

@AllergicToAMop I'm merely pointing out that not being able t eat quorn doesn't mean you cannot have a plant based diet. Quorn is processed and a lot of vegans don't eat it for this reason too. But it doesn't mean we can't eat more plants! Quite the contrary. If you want to eat meat because you want to that's fine but don't blame quorn.

AnyMinuteNow · 12/01/2020 12:57

Tell that to the cow who is forcibly impregnated over and over again only to have her babies ripped away and killed while she is used for milk production

Please explain your emotive use of the word 'forcibly'. Is there struggling, and harm brought to bear to the cow?

If there is then tell the authorities, as the cow really can't and won't listen to anyone, and the consumers certainly aren't listening to your attacks on them and why would they

iamadalek2 · 12/01/2020 12:59

@my2bundles going vegan doesn't mean you have to start eating processed food. What a strange though!

AllergicToAMop · 12/01/2020 13:01

@iamadalek2 you are just ignoring all the other posts about fodmap and plant based diet... That's what you are doing. The quorn was just one of the examples given.

BMW6 · 12/01/2020 13:01

I am an animal who eats other animals. No "justification" needed

my2bundles · 12/01/2020 13:03

To give my kids enough from a vegan diet yes they eould need to eat processed rubbish. They will continue to be raised on a good balanced diet including meat and dairy and zero processed rubbish.

iamadalek2 · 12/01/2020 13:04

@AllergicToAMop I'm very familiar with this diet thankyou and it's not a reason to not eat more plants. If you want to eat meat and dairy do what you want. It's your decision but own it for that reason!

veryvery · 12/01/2020 13:08

The animals we eat and drink milk from have been domesticated over thousands of years. I'm not sure how they would fit into today's environment if they were rewilded. Even hawks that are kept for flight displays often come back after flying off because they like to be fed even though they can very definitely hunt. Whilst I really don't condone animal cruelty, the human race and animals have been living together for a very long time. The benefits are not only one sided either.

iamadalek2 · 12/01/2020 13:13

@BMW6 I'm a vegan and I think our answer is fair enough. We should just be honest about it. What I dislike is people making loads of excuses as to why they can't have a Plant based diet.

fascicle · 12/01/2020 13:13

AnyMinuteNow
I think you are missing key points, as you have with both my link and my comment to another poster which you have taken as being directed at you despite me boldening an abbreviation of their name, which another pp has also pointed out.

Grr (end part of other poster's username) is a common exclamation - I took it as such, especially since you ended a sentence with it after addressing me, rather than addressing SaaauuusierGrrr up front.

What key points do you think I am missing? Pointless to say this and not explain further. Not sure why you are unwilling to back up your previous claim by providing information relating to specific cases which you seem to think you have posted but which I am unable to find. Not hard for you to repost it.

iamadalek2 · 12/01/2020 13:21

@my2