To think British folk don't tolerate "privileged complaining" like the US?

[GinDaddy]

yes this is another topic partially related to Duke/Duchess of Sussex. If you don't like this, apologies in advance

I read a thread on here titled "The racists have won" regarding Harry and Meghan's withdrawl from public life.

AIBU to have a different perspective entirely? That their thin-skinnedness and endless preaching about the issuesdrew more vitriol towards them - and their whole approach was very badly suited to British life?

Bear with me :

Yes as a mixed-race (white/caribbean) person, I winced at the "outta Compton" headlines that greeted the latest addition to the Firm. I despaired at the "blood-thickening" comments that were made about Meghan's heritage and any children.

I'm not suggesting that any of this could simply be overlooked, and for sure it has an impact on a person's mental health.

Yet it precipitated dozens of column inches and angry statements from Harry, with strange and emotive allusions to his mother's death. It triggered that dreadful ITV stuff where Meghan says her and Harry are "existing, not living" - a comment which was extraordinary when you consider some of the challenges British people face. (Who is advising these people here?!)

Such commentary may be described as "woke" in the US. It might be considered on-trend to speak out and stand up to such things.

However in the UK, I feel it's more a country of deeds not words . To borrow a cricket analogy, being in UK public life is a bit like Test cricket. You can't come out on the attack or you'll lose your wicket within the hour. Instead, you will get bouncers hurled at you for the first few sessions of your innings, and you have to bat time and survive, dig in, and then start to accumulate once you've seen off a few.

AIBU to think Harry and Meghan could have ridden all this out if they had quietly gone about public life, working on a few select British-focused charities, supporting those closest to succession, and simply following the Duchess of Cambridge approach? You might be "Waity Katy" when we first meet you, but in time you'll be accepted because it's the British way to take the piss, then quietly treat you as a mate once time has passed.

I might be VU here as I realise they've had a rougher ride than most. But all this emotion seems to have led them into a corner where they've lashed out.

AIBU to think it's kind of in the British culture not to endlessly hand-wring in public in this regard?

When I read this I thought how could the courtiers block the queen from seeing her grandson. It sounds very controlling.

"It is understood that Harry had requested a meeting with the Queen at Sandringham as soon as he arrived back in the UK with Meghan and their son Archie this weekend, following a six-week Christmas break to Canada.

The Queen offered to meet the Duke - which was blocked by courtiers - but she still made an explicit request to her grandson that he first discuss his future plans in detail with his father, the Prince of Wales."

Perhaps if the meeting had been allowed to take place we might not have been reading todays news.

Do you think he's a hapless idiot who's been duped by this wicked woman?

Hapless idiot who’s been duped? Yes.

Wicked woman? Not wicked, but certainly narcissistic and entitled.

OP I agree with much of what you say. I think the treatment of Meghan has been appalling. She is a beautiful and intelligent young woman who should have had so much to offer as a member of the Royal family.
Yet every time I think what a great couple they are they do something really stupid.
I can't believe their exit was not agreed with the Palace. It's pretty offensive to the Queen. Its also really badly thought through. You can't earn a living professionally and be celebs whilst still having one foot in royal life. Its been tried and failed. You can't cherry pick.
I'm not sure Meghan has ever really got what the role of the royal family is. It's not something you can mould to your own whim.
I wish them well but I don't see this as the end of the story. I think there's a bumpy road ahead.

@zafferana

yes!! Exactly.

Their press statement is an embarrassment. It begins "After months of consideration and discussion"...

...yes, maybe amongst yourselves, but clearly not with anyone who you grew up with and were asked to trust.

I just think Meghan and Harry wouldn't want to talk it over with their family, in case they were convinced to stay and cut ribbons in Strathclyde or do mental health talks at schools in Middlesborough etc.

Nope, ignoring any discussion with family means they can now do mental health talks...on a sofa with Oprah for a TED-style round table hosted by Vanity Fair in Los Angeles, unencumbered by any reminders of duty or the United Kingdom etc.

That's not bitterness from me at all; I love the Royal Family as an entity but I don't want to be a Royal, I don't begrudge their money etc.

I just call cynicism when I see it. Failing to inform the Queen was a way of doing what they wanted without having someone appeal to their better nature.

I’m no royalist but this country apparently has a majority population of masochistic forelock tuggers in thrall to their so called betters so until that changes we have to put up with what we get and this is what we’ve got so

That aside i am sure they have their own pr advisers who are better qualified than randomers on mn and who have given this quite some thought. I am sure h&m have also given it some thought as well. H grew up watching his mum play the cat and mouse they hate me they love me game with the press and the establishment as well, even though imo she played an absolute blinder, look how that turned out for her in the end.

Middlesbrough - just the one o thanks.

@FourTeaFallOut

apologies for the sp!

I have nothing against MM and I don’t THINK I’m racist BUT she married into the British Royal family. It’s probably the most high profile attention grabbing thing you can do. I have no idea if she married Harry in spite of his position or because of it but whatever crap they have had to put up with from the media they are still in an incredibly privileged position
They will never have to worry about paying bills, getting safe housing, ensuring their children go to a decent school.
They are both very very lucky in terms of their birth, looks, who they married etc and whining about any of it does grate a bit

I see your point entirely OP.
I have been extremely disappointed and horrified by the racism and vitriol that Meghan in particular has faced by the British press and on social media sites. So in that regard, I completely understand why they need to withdraw for the sake of their own mental health.

However, what annoys me intensely is that there has been no recognition of their class/money privilege in all of this. Classism is still alive and kicking in this country and it is very disingenuous to assume that racism is our only problem here in the UK. Yes, they have been victims of racism and there is no excuse or justification for that. However, to describe themselves as "existing" when there are families in this country who are so deep in poverty they only eat once a day, have no heating, and not to mention our homeless problem, is in my view extremely ignorant and offensive.

They have never once acknowledged the enormous privilege they have, which is wealth. Of course wealth doesnt automatically provide you with happiness or protect you from racism but it certainly gives you freedom and choices, access to the best healthcare, mental health support, travel (if you need space to get away), security and protection and a platform to make your feelings known. People living in poverty who also suffer racism in this country have none of those things and I would imagine are getting sick and tired of hearing them whine about it. It is unbelievably crass and insensitive for them to have made those comments considering the level of control they have over their lives to elicit change. Few people in this country have the opportunity or resources to do that and I wouldnt blame those who are struggling with poverty and/or are in abusive relationships or have long standing mental health issues for wanting to tell them to just piss right off with their privileged moaning.

Noone is saying they aren't allowed to express their views but FFS, have a little sensitivity to the situations other people find themselves in and at least dont expect an outpouring of sympathy from people who are in far worse situations than they'll ever experience in their lifetimes.

Yes, being a royal looks like a horrible life to me- and its not something I would choose. However, having worked in a psych ward I can tell you what the real meaning of the word "existing" is and its certainly aint them. I had a small amount of sympathy for them at first, but frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing them whine and moan now.

If only OP had married Harry, all would have been well

I just call cynicism when I see it. Failing to inform the Queen was a way of doing what they wanted without having someone appeal to their better nature.

Yes, I agree GinDaddy. I think they decided that the way to get what they wanted was to get in first and set out their plans. Thing is, they want their cake and eat it and I don't think that either the RF or the British public will accept that. If you want the grace and favour home, the royal protection officers and the titles you have to do the work. You don't get to be an HRH and live in Canada and hang out with your celeb chums and do fuck all. It's either/or. I suspect that that's what they'll be told in the coming weeks and that there will be another announcement at some point clarifying exactly what their positions and responsibilities will be going forward and it will differ somewhat from their statement yesterday!

It is difficult to have sympathy for the wealthy when they complain because they seem so out of touch with most people's reality. Their statement includes working towards being financially independent. I am sorry but exactly how many millions does it take for that to be achieved? It seems as if they want to keep the titles and commander the attention that comes with that but only for their own benefit. I have no issues with them deciding to live a different kind of life but think they should drop the titles and go on as private citizens and that should mean giving up their home that taxpayers helped renovate. Instead as private citizens they should buy their own homes and fund their own security. By allowing them to keep their titles the Queen will effectively be allowing them to use their very privileged position to make money and that has so far not been allowed. It seems as if they want all the good bits of being toyal but none of the bad. I do not like the vitriol towards Meghan as Harry is just as much culpable. They allegedly told family members of her pregnancy at his cousins wedding if a mumsnet poster has complained of someone doing the same to her that person would have got called out for being a cow. The current news has been released the day before his sister in laws birthday narcissistic and selfish behaviour does have a pattern.

They were both well liked in the beginning of their relationship but their hypocrisy changed things. There is however no excuse for the abhorrent racism she has had to face though!

British people really don’t like hypocrisy.
They certainly don’t like hypocritical, entitled, virtue-signalling multi-millionaire celebrities preaching at them to change their lifestyles while using private jets themselves.
They definitely don’t like the same celebrities moaning about how awful their privileged lives are while ordinary people struggle to make ends meet.

^This

Piers Morgan has got it spot on (not something I thought I would ever say) . Harry was quite liked by the public however he has been manipulated and no, I don't like what I see in MM - and that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with her race, it is to do with the fact that I think she had a plan and she has executed it perfectly. The British people aren't stupid and can see exactly what she was (power hungry - and no, being an actress was not equivalent to being "royal") and what she would do. However I am surprised at the speed of it - I gave them 5 years, it appears I was being overly generous. Harry has (it appears) swapped his family - and a close knit one it was, like it or not - for celebrities. He will regret that one day.

Harry was born into the Royal family, he didn’t choose that life.
Being wealthy and privileged does not guarantee happiness, how many rich people (famous or otherwise) take their own lives? He lost his Mother in horrific circumstances at the age of 12 and was forced into walking behind her coffin. Who does that to a young child? If you want someone to blame, blame the Queen, her husband and his Father (who caused so much misery to their Mother). You reap what you sow. Let’s not make out the Queen is a lovely old lady, she’s had her moments in the past and so has Charles.

I say good on Harry, he clearly has found a new and better life with Meghan and now Archie, he is doing what all good husbands should do, protecting his family.

"Their statement includes working towards being financially independent. I am sorry but exactly how many millions does it take for that to be achieved? It seems as if they want to keep the titles and commander the attention that comes with that but only for their own benefit."

Exactly!!

The website "sussexroyal.com", the nauseating statement which makes some unequivocal assertions that clearly have not been discussed with Buckingham Palace, Clarence House, or any of the official channels...it smacks of a little child who is trying to set the tone and the agenda, before big brother and father move in and set the real parameters.

Just ridiculous - the photography, the whole glossiness, it's so off-brand and has nothing to do with combatting racism or mental health, and everything to do with a younger brother and spouse lashing out to find their place in the world.

Anyone coming into an organisation/institution/corporate organisation from outside, particularly from a different background will be scritiised and critisised unfairly/wrongly -
Mark Phillips was not nobility when he married Princess Anne, but in they eyes of the public/media as she was not in the main line of inheritance less of an issue
Diana was not Royal when previously Princes married Princesses
Sarah Ferguson was not aristocratic but Cahrles was married and had heirs so less of a target
Prince Edward was pretty far down the foodchain and not above teh parapet so not much targetting of Sophie
Kate got a lot of flak for her background but seems to have overcome it

Yes some of Megan's critism is race based without question.

BUT
If she was a white English Sloane and was portreyed as espousing her views on the environment/culture and charities she would still get beaten up by the press for it.

I do wonder if she looks as what she is printed as having said and thinks I did NOT say that. It would not surprise me.

British people really don’t like hypocrisy.
They certainly don’t like hypocritical, entitled, virtue-signalling multi-millionaire celebrities preaching at them to change their lifestyles while using private jets themselves.

But they were ok with that when Charles and Wills were doing it.

Interesting.

@LaurieMarlow

"But they were ok with that when Charles and Wills were doing it"

This isn't a sexism thing... Charles and Wills were doing it, but that wasn't ALL they were doing or talking about.

They both have shown an unswerving commitment to their roles and public life, and the core of their activities is centred around this approach.

That doesn't place them beyond reproach, and plenty have things to say about Charles' private life.

However they are not solely preachers, they are more public servants who have gone about things in a subtle, discursive, collaborative manner. The Princes Trust or Time to Talk, these are examples of how a well-ordered campaign where the spokesperson is a conduit for discussion, is the best approach for royals.

but that wasn't ALL they were doing or talking about.

And neither were the Sussexes. They’ve both done significant work for their specified charities.

My take on it is this:

There probably were racist things said on social media channels like twitter and borderline racist things said in the gutter press. I don't know, becuase I don't use them, but I would imagine that Meghan is familiar with these sources of information because actors, musicians and others have to promote themselves to get noticed. However, these channels are notorious. As I understand it, ever female MP has received death threats at some point. The trick is to become oblivious to them. They have staff to deal with this stuff, so there is no need for them to know about it. Their security team will monitor the situation for credible threats, but most are made by idiot trolls.

They haven't done much Royal work since they married. I really don't think they have given things a chance to settle down. Their urgency in making this move is concerning and their vision for the future contains many contradictions. I think they should have worked these all out with the Queen's office before presenting a unified front to the world o what their next move will be. As things stand, they come across as rude and disrespectful to a woman who commands international respect and affection. That is not a good move and I think it will be damaging for them.

The worst part of this is that their website was made by a Toronto online agency.. wonder how they got the business.

I'm not being jingoistic here , but there wasn't a British web design company up to the task?

Reading Room (designers of Royal.uk) have made a brilliant site that is accessible to all, works on all devices etc.

Gah, the whole thing is just so messy and would infuriate me if I was Charles, Will or the Queen.

Their life choices are starting to look as if they are dictated by Piers Morgan to prove his hate theories.

If the Queen has any sense of humour she will revoke the Sussex title, which is ridiculous anyway because I doubt they could find it on a map, and that would make their new "brand" and website obsolete immediately. That would be funny and put the RF back in control.

Their relationship is on the line. Bet they divorce in the next 5 years.

I haven't seen any racists or otherwise horrible articles about Megan. But then I don't read newspapers. I doubt they read these types of newspapers either so I wonder how much this really has affected their day to day lives?

@LaurieMarlow

They've done significant work together...for about a year and a half. Much of that spent outside the UK.

I don't doubt that their entire life will be spent in some form of philanthropic guise. But less than two years public service in the UK? I wouldn't call that significant.

Tony Blair may be enjoying his Foundation and grandstanding on the global stage, but he did ten years as Prime Minister and a few more years than that as an MP.

Weren't we entitled to a bit more time before they cashed out for Hollywood?