My mum has turned into a racist, advice please

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

I suspect its because of the man she's now with, and she's easily led/a bit simple/believes posts from Britain First on FB/lives a fairly small life.

For context, I had a wonderful childhood and there was no hint of any racism at all. Its all come about after my Dad died a few years ago; she seems to have developed these views.

I find it disgusting, but also incredibly frustrating as she cant seem to think for herself (this unfortunately has been a lifelong trait, she seems to adopt views of people she spends a lot of time with and tends to be very changeable). My Dad was a very measured man, and racist views were never given any entertainment.

Im embarrassed to go out with her in public because of her remarks, its horrible. Im just so so sad about it all.

Does anyone have any advice please?

I have a racist parent. I grew up hearing a lot of weird crap. I have the exact same problems when we are out in public with him. I politely ask him to talk about something else when we are out. In terms of how his views affect my child, that has to be handled differently. I've been to therapy over this. He taught my son some racist terminology when I left him in my parents' care. I'd discussed this with them on a number of occasions, and I thought we were on the same page. When I had my back turned, they did whatever they wanted. My son then used it at school and had the crap beaten out of him a few times. The therapist suggested that we never leave him unsupervised with them again. It took so much work to undo that damage.

'Mum, that sounds really ignorant. You're better than that. Come on.'
'What would dad think if he heard you spout nonsense like that? '
'That doesn't sound like you. Who's been putting racist ideas in your head?'
'Think before you speak, mum. That sounds racist.'
'How would you feel if you overheard a Muslim saying we all stink of rotting milk from all the dairy we eat? Or saying we stink of pork? Not nice is it? Don't do it.'

Do you think your mum believes what she is saying? I feel a bit sad for her if she has always followed or been easily persuaded. It sounds like she lacks the confidence to hold her own opinions or something. My DM had a severe breakdown two years ago and during the process of her recovery she made a few off colour remarks about certain groups of people and it really upset me at the time because I've always looked up to her and it was so out of character. Because of her mental state and everything we were going through as a family I never said anything to her, you couldn't hold a conversation with her properly and she was scared a lot of the time and easily upset. I started a thread here about it and cried as posters told me it was probably the start of dementia. I don't know if it was or not, but since then she's well on the road to recovery from her breakdown. Recently she started working again and seems back to her normal self thankfully. I know that's not helpful for you and I don't know what to suggest but I guess you could either change the subject whenever she does (that's what I did), challenge her when she says things or say something to her and ask her to stop talking about certain subjects when you go out. "Mum I want to spend time with you but it upsets me when you say XYZ. I appreciate that is your view but it isn't mine and I'd like to spend the day with you without having to hear about it." Or something like that.

*C8H10N4O2
"I always just assumed it was because she lives a small life. She does work, but thats in the town she lives in. Its a small town in the North of England. I think thats the main factor"

The curious thing about most of the surveys I've seen on social attitudes toward BAME people is that the likelihood of negative reaction is almost inversely related to direct experience of BAME people. There are one or two exception areas but the most hostile attitudes tend to come from areas with the least BAME people.

I think that is actually what I would expect. When you know somebody, you think of them as that person, not as a member of that not-like-me group. And by extension, when you meet or hear about another person of their race/type/colouration/whatever, you might be likely to think of them as being like that person rather than as one of that not-like-me group.

And it probably helps to have met people from several different countries or races or religions, because then you know from your own experience they are not all identiclones and assuming that everyone from say India will be the same is just plain silly.

At only 65 I absolutely would challenge her, its not really old is it.
At least ask her not to make the comments in front of you because you find it so offensive.
What a shame for your relationship.

A bit simple is a derogatory way to describe someone, is it ok to be derogatory about those less educated/enlightened than yourself. Is that any better than making sweeping but not necessarily nasty racist remarks. One of the more unpleasant features of MN is all those that frequently want to call out everyone and anyone for any remark, whether said offensivly or innocently about race, gender, disability whilst being perfectly happy to make offensive, unpleasant remarks about anybody over the age of 50.

If you're looking for support OP , calling your mother 'a bit simple' isn't the best way to go about it.

It's not ok to use the term 'a bit simple' to describe anyone. It originates from a slur towards those with LD.

The OP has no issue with using that disablist slur. Going by her responses to those who take issue with the slur, it appears that she is selective in who affords respect.

My Mum, 88 and still going strong, makes embarrassing comments whilst out.

Some of it is outdated language, phrases some could be heard as racist - even though its not meant as such.

My sons partner is black - she described him as being very clean. I know she’s referring to him wiping the table before a meal we had but out of context.......

“Have we found out where he comes from?” Yes, Mum he comes from London. Note the WE.

My nephew’s partner is of mixed heritage. My mum goes on about this a bit and asked me what I thought. She’s a Londoner Mum. (Which she is, through and through.)

Its where inquisitiveness starts to go into overload.

She’s worst in a hospital environment. “How do you spell your name?” “Where do you come from?” And I’m thinking Mum you don't need to know, stick to the weather.

She also makes personal/appearance type comments.... “That man’s very tall”. “That nurses’ uniform is a bit tight.”

My brother and I cringe and occasionally, when it gets too much intervene.

It’s the lack of filter that can cause stress to those around - me and my brother.

Im not at all selective in who I afford respect. The remark wasnt meant to be offensive in any way.

I asked for help with an issue im facing and have had some really good advice.

I get the impression this thread is going to be derailed now, so i'll be hiding it.

Thanks everyone for the good advice.

I get the impression this thread is going to be derailed now, so i'll be hiding it.

Presumably because you have been called out for your own inappropriate remarks.

I kind of understand what you're going through OP.

My dad is 64, lives in the NE and is becoming increasing more and more hideous with some of the things he says. Our last visit over new year ended up with me leaving a day earlier as I couldn't stand another day in his company.

The ordeal that kicked it off was something one the TV that lead to a conversation about racism. Dad starts the whole "people are offended by everything now" speech and said "it's not racist to describe a black person as a 'darkie' to someone else, as long as the person you're describing doesn't hear" and described a situation where he had done this (his justification for this was the person he was speaking to was 'Indian' and laughed when he called the black person a 'darkie') ...

But if it TRY to refute his points and explain why that kind of thinking isn't ok he just gets angry with me and says things like "OH I'm wrong AGAIN, I'm ALWAYS wrong, never right" and acts like a giant toddler, he went in a huff for the rest of the night and would barely even look at me, slamming doors, snapping responses and being horrible to everyone in general. This then gets my back up as he was like this when I was a kid and he would end up shouting at me telling me off.

I'm worried about the future as we're getting married this year, hoping to be pregnant by the end of the year, I don't want to bring my kids around him making comments like that and NEVER being able to challenge him for fear of him kicking off and being a massive baby, making me feel like a child again.

I love him so much as a Dad, my parents did a lot for me and still do and I know he would do anything for me at the drop of a hat. He is a laugh when talking about inane general stuff, but his racist, mysogenistic and arrogant side of him really makes me dislike him as a person.

I can't offer advise I don't know what the bloody hell to do but I know how you feel and it's shit!

@Paintedmaypole

white trash is an insult as are some racist terms used towards black and Asian people which are too offensive for me even to write, everyone of any age knows they are offensive. There are other words which have become unacceptable more recently but were once not considered offensive. A similar thing has happened with language used to describe disabilities. Some much older people use them without realising, eg coloured rather than black.

‘Coloured’ is just as unacceptable as ‘white trash’. No excuses.

Uneducated isn't the same as 'a bit simple' but moving on...

My mum started making comments like this in later life. I was a bit baffled because I can't say she was just expressing feelings she had always had, but had lost her ability to filter - I really don't think that was the case. My Father was from the Middle-East and so a lot of our extended family were 'forrin' and my my mum loved them (obviously married a Middle Eastern man) was travelled, cultured and educated. We had friends of all colours, races and religions and none of it was ever referenced negatively at all.

And yet...

She hit seventy and started making sweeping statements about racial groups and using language that she had never used before to describe ethnicity - not really derogatory words, but endlessly references people's race and colour when talking about things. And yes, sometimes saying really awful things - 'the black girl with the horrible frizzy hair' was one I recall. She started buying and reading the DM despite previously being scathing about it. When I challenged her, she would say 'oh it's an easy read'...

A couple of years later she had slipped into full blown dementia and I have always wondered if her rudeness was part of decline. I am not sure - she was more rude in other ways as well, but the racism was more prominent than any other pre-dementia change.

Not suggesting that your mum is becoming unwell - it sounds like her views are easily influenced, but just challenging those who say that displaying racism in later life is something that has always 'been there'. I'm not sure that's true.

The remark wasnt meant to be offensive in any way.
A lot of racist remarks made by older people aren't actually meant to be offensive. (which is not to say that there aren't a lot that ARE meant to be, by people of any age).
I was brought up knowing the shop around the corner as 'the paki-shop' to differentiate it from 'the paper shop' 'the butchers' and 'the bread shop' Yes it was run by an Asian man, but I thought the term simply meant the shop that sold all sorts of stuff, including sweets, and was always open late. Of course I now know better, and wouldn't use the term, but the point it older people have to re-learn the meaning of words and phrases that they were brought up with as simply every-day speech. We were taught that 'coloured' was nicer than 'black' although nobody explained why.
So yes, most people have re-educated themselves to avoid words that are deemed offensive. But languages change fast and what is acceptable in once circle might not be in another.
Your UNTHINKING use of 'simple minded' is no different to this.
Though of course proclaiming that groups of people can't swim or smell of curry is another matter.

I get the impression this thread is going to be derailed now, so i'll be hiding it.

Aw right. I want to have people make lots of sympathetic noises and agree with me that my mum’s a racist, but don’t dare expect me to apologise for my own inappropriate comments.

Racism = bad

Disablism = not important

Is implying that living and working in a small town in the North of England makes you racist - not also racist?

People can become more intolerant with age. They can also become less inhibited. Plus any kind of degeneration (eg alzheimers) can lead to outbursts.

@cassidystone I do still see some people sharing racist posts on fb, I tend to unfollow these people but I'm not sure what the source of the posts is.

OP your mum is relatively young - I have colleagues older than her who are learning new skills so I'm sure your mum can learn not to be racist.
My parents aren't racist & theyre early 70s working class. But it's mainly thanks to them mixing with a variety of people at work.

I think calling your mum out each time is the right thing to do. But in the end it comes down to whether she prefers to listen to you or to her partner.... I wish you luck!

It's not ok to use the term 'a bit simple' to describe anyone. It originates from a slur towards those with LD.

I agree with this. It just makes me feel that this is kind of a pot and kettle thing. The OP is upset about her mum's racist remarks, but doesn't like being pulled up for using a disablist term.

just makes me feel that this is kind of a pot and kettle thing.

Ouch ouch ouch. I’m going to need a bingo card at this rate. 🤣

Coloured used to be considered the 'nice way' to refer to black people when I was growing up. People now in their 80s often haven't had the exposure to information to change that.

My MIL for instance doesn't have a racist bone in her body. But she's never had internet access, only gets her news from TV, and doesn't watch current affairs programmes. So unlike me, she's not had exposure to updated thinking and use of language. So yes, she still says coloured occasionally (or did before her dementia began to rob her of speech).

To say that there's no excuse for people of that age is unfair. They simply have not had the means to be as easily informed, or 'around' the language of race.

I’m experiencing the same with my PIL who are later 60s. Gradual erosion of tolerance, racist and homophobic views that are ‘just jokes’ to them, becoming more insular and small minded and mean. Intolerance of the homeless. View themselves as liberal as they didn’t vote for Brexit but are anything but. I have told them I don’t want to hear it and don’t want my DS around it either. It’s a shame that our solution is just for them not to vocalise those views but they won’t change their mindset now.

I would challenge it but not in a confrontational way - just in a way that forces her to explain eg

'They all smell of curry'
'Do they mum? I hadn't realised you had South Asian friends - how many people do you know from that part of the world?'
'Umm none'
'Don't you think it's a bit rascit to make sweeping statements about an entire group of people you have no experience of?'

65? That isn't too old to be challenged every single time; my mother is 88 and if she says anything I immediately pull her up on it; with her, it's certainly an age thing. But 65, it shouldn't be happening.

* she seems to have developed these views. *

They would likely have already been there, but concealed

She’s now in a relationship where it’s not frowned upon, hence more evident