Homophobia

[Whatisthisfuckery]

Inspired by the racism thread, although not a taat I don’t think:

Do people think homophobia is still a problem in the UK? I’m genuinely interested in people’s responses.

I very much do as I experience it myself, although by no means everybody is homophobic, in fact not even most people, but a significant number nonetheless. AIBU?

I have no idea how gay people are treated because I don’t really have gay friends but I am telling you, the most homophobic people tend to be (seemingly) heterosexual males. I suspect they are latent/secret homo-or bisexuals themselves. Their acting angry and homophobic is a psychological trick, this is how they try to send a loud message to society that they are straight and very much male. After all, if I hate gays, I can’t be gay myself is their thinking.

I consider myself highly, highly empathetic. I also think it's the height of arrogance to claim I know what somebody else's lived experience is, especially if they are something I am not and cannot ever be (sex, race, sexuality...). I can have empathy with them and imagine what it must be like for them, but I will never be, for example, a black man pulled over by police in America and fearful for my life.

Just like the men I'm swiping on tinder might have huge amounts of empathy, but they'll never have a real sense of what and how much I do even subconsciously to try to ensure that next date doesn't rape or kill me.

GiveHerHellFromUs but white people have no idea what it’s like to be black, just like men have no idea what it’s like to be female and sighted people have no idea what it’s like to be blind.

In the UK, a majority white country, I don’t accept that racism is an issue for white people. There may be individual people or communities who dislike and are prejudiced towards white people, but when a white person encounters them they are the exception rather than a regular occurrence.

For example, I popped into an asian supermarket a few months ago. It was a hot day and I wanted a drink. All the other people in there were Asian. I was stared at and everybody went silent when I went up to pay. I had the thought that this is what racism must feel like, it was most uncomfortable, but I could walk out the door and be back in a majority white society. That experience isn’t my normal, it’s nowhere near my normal, because the rest of the city and the country I would not feel uncomfortable, awkward or out of place. It was a brief snapshot at best, but I don’t think a brief snapshot is representative because it’s not the background noise to my life.

Not long ago, two lesbians were beaten up for refusing to kiss each other for the benefit of ogling men.
Three teenagers, actually. 15, 16 and 17.

But yes, homophobia is of course still a problem, even with decent progress made.

That isn’t of course to say that people can’t have empathy. Of course they can and many do, but empathy and actually living it are quite different.

I’m blind, and I’ve had conversations with people who have suffered temporary sight loss for various reasons. They have all said to me that it has given them an insight into what it must be like for me but that they can’t imagine what it must be like to be blind all the time because they were lucky enough for it to be temporary.

it’s very different just experiencing something once, or very occasionally, when you know you can go back to your normal. You can’t properly imagine it being your normal because it’s just not.

I hear far too many unpleasant things to see that homophobia has bitten the dust. I'm not gay but I have always had gay friends, male and female. Currently gay women seem to be bearing the brunt of abuse.
Anyone making homophobic remarks in my presence is pulled up on their idiocy. If I see anything on social media among acquaintances then they're pulled up on it too.

I think there is far more homophobia towards gay men than women and from men too.

It will always be a problem with some folks in all parts of the world.

I think things have improved a lot
When I was at school anyone even suspected of being gay was shunned (not by me but in general) but in dd15s generation it’s completely accepted and hardly worth commenting on. She might say that so and so from her Primary turned out to be a lesbian or another person is Bi but it’s just a factual statement
I remember being a bit shocked when she said that a Male best friend was going to stay at another friends house (other friend is gay). I’m my generation anyone doing that would have had the piss taken out of them and assumed to be gay as well
I’m sure things have a long way to go but it’s definitely better than when I were a lass!

Back to the thread. Lesbians are fetishised by straight men in a way that gay men aren’t by straight women. I’m not saying gay men aren’t fetishised by straight women because they very much are, but there is a huge category of porn that is so-called lesbian porn, basically women paid and probably coerced to simulate straight mens’ idea of lesbian sex. There is also a huge category of gay porn but women just don’t consume it in the same way that men do.

So many straight men think that they have the magic penis, and if I’d just let them fuck me I’d be turned in an instant. I encounter it on pretty much every night out I go on. I’m sure gay men are subject to the same treatment from women but I doubt it’s the same. Women don’t pose the same physical threat to men after all, so the affect is different even if they are approached. I’m aware that gay men get the ‘oh what a waste’ type comments from straight women, but it’s not the same as being physically approached, followed around and feeling the physical presence and threat of someone bigger and stronger than you of the sex class that is responsible for 98% of sexual crime and 80/90% of violent crime.

I have no idea if the levels of homophobia experienced by lesbians is worse than the level of homophobia experienced by gay men, because I’m not a gay man. Men after all or more likely to be the victims of violent crime where women are more likely to be the victims of sexual crime, although gay men might be more likely to be the victim of the latter than straight men. I think the experience is bound to be different though, because the experience of men and women is vastly different in general.

Also straight people are called poof, lezer etc, although I’d argue that’s more down to misogyny than homophobia, where as homophobia as experienced by lesbian gay and bi people is down to both.

Yes, homophobia still exists in the UK and is especially prevalent in religious communities!

Yeah you get those idiots that say to gay women ‘you just haven’t had the right man yet’ and I’m straight but how fucking idiotic and patronising, and like you say as if their magic cock will change who you fancy!

@Hoppinggreen when I was 14/15 about 80% of the girls in my school year started getting into relationships with each other after previously having boyfriends/teenage pregnancies etc. It was quite strange. It was about 10 years ago, probably around the time it started becoming more 'normal' to be open about sexuality I guess.

3 or 4 of them are now in relationships with women. The majority identify as heterosexual.

But I think that big rush of 'experimentation' made it almost irrelevant as to what people's actual sexual orientations are for my age group (and probably generation Z/millennials as a whole) which can only be a good thing.

Just to confirm, when I say it was strange, I mean that everyone happened to decide to explore/experiment at the same time. Literally all within a few days. Not that the exploration/experimentation happened. That is, of course, perfectly healthy.

My experience is from a lot longer than 10 years ago, which may explain the difference

I agree that lesbians in particular are subjected to the most appalling homophobia and it has been getting worse not better of recent years with the accusations of 'transphobia' from heterosexual males 'identifying' as women.

When the very organisations set up to support and advocate for homosexual people are spending all their time lauding heterosexual males at the expense of homosexual women there is clearly a very serious problem.

I will attend a gay wedding this summer where there will no parents on one side attending as they disapprove.

This is the second time I will have attended a wedding with parents absent for that reason.

Demographic is early 30s, big city, middle class - and yet there are still family members who won't accept having a gay/lesbian relative.

I think there is still a huge amount of work to be done.
I dont understand how some religious communities get away with spreading their bile. Surely if constitutes hate speech?

For me, the biggest thread running through all of this is toxic masculinity. The vast majority of homophobia is from men who are sexually threatened by gay men who they think may desire them sexually and lesbians who do not.

But I have seen a lot of progress in my lifetime:

My parents were born in the 1940s and although they were very much at the forefront in terms of campaigning against racism and misogyny during the 60s and 70s, they never really felt comfortable with the idea of homosexuality.

I was born in the late 70s and although I remember the first lesbian kiss on Brookside and homosexuality was still pretty taboo when I was growing up, as an adult I totally embrace equality within marriage, the workplace and society in general for gay and lesbian people.

My son is 9 and to him, homosexuality is totally normal. He has a friend with 2 mums and he totally accepts that it is just another type of family.
Before he had any concept of the act of sex, he understands that men can love and marry men and women can love and marry women if they want to.

cracker was just coming on to say this, it all comes from a place of toxic masculinity doesn't it? I think men and women experience homophobia in different ways and with different motives but it's hard to say what is more common than the other.

I think the most insidious thing is the casual homophobia in speech. Obviously physical attacks are a worse experience but (mostly) everyone agrees they are wrong, whereas casual homophobia slips in unnoticed and is rarely called out.

I'm not talking about blatantly rude, "so who's the man in the relationship?" etc, but more along the lines of people just slipping it in to an unrelated conversation - "you know Jane from accounting, she's a lesbian you know! Nothing wrong with that obviously. Anyway, this invoice..."

IMO if you have to point out that you're not bothered by it, you probably are and you're trying to cover it up.

IMO if you have to point out that you're not bothered by it, you probably are and you're trying to cover it up.

I don't think that's necessarily true.
On an earlier post of mine I clarified what I was referring to when I used the word 'strange' because people get offended by things that sometimes may be a misinterpretation.

I find older people in particular would use "the lesbian" as a descriptor so people know who they're referring to then feel they have to make a point that it doesn't bother them because they don't want to upset or offend anyone, based of the fact that some people they grew up around/socialise with still have homophobic views.

Sadly I have known gay men who talk about lesbians in not a very nice way so Goes both ways.

I think that there's equal amounts of homophobia towards gay men and lesbians, but just in different forms.

Gay men tend to receive aggressive comments from other men mainly about how they're 'lesser' and 'disgusting'. While lesbians tend to receive homophobic comments in the form of 'which men hurt you' and 'you're just doing this for male attention'. IME at least.

Sadly I have known gay men who talk about lesbians in not a very nice way so Goes both ways.

Many moons ago I did my internship in a field that had a lot of gay men, and have heard so many comments from them saying that they were 'better women' than women. It's really sad.

I find it a really hard thing to explain, the guy liner wrote a really good piece about he feels when out and about and I saw huge similarities between his behaviour and mine.

“ I keep moving. I am always moving. I take the stairs, not the lift, never stand on the escalators if on my own, but walk up them instead. I don’t pause to look in shop windows, or watch buskers or the cup-and-ball conmen; I walk on, quickly, with purpose – because I like to get where I am going, yes, but also because I know it’s harder to hit a moving target. If you dart past the rest of the world, allow yourself to be a blur, you’re less likely to be noticed, to attract their attention, get them to question whether there’s something different about you that they either desire, fear, or feel powerful enough to exploit. Experience has taught me perpetual motion is my greatest protection.”

When I was at school gay, poof, lezzer etc were very common insults, if you dared challenge it you were definitely gay. My son is only four and gets called gay (probably because he has long hair), children wouldn’t use that insult without parental influence.

People say things casually without thinking about the actual meaning, I have had people say to me “oh what a shame that you’re gay” what?! I always kick myself afterwards for not asking why it’s a shame.

There’s a lot of casual homophobia at work, but there is publicly as well, gay is still a go to insult. Lesbian still “just need a right seeing to”.

People often don’t notice until you point it out, but it’s very very rare to see any form of PDA from a gay person. It’s subtle things as well, I went out for a meal recently with a group of friends (all gay), not a single person had sat next to or opposite their partner as it’s ingrained in us to keep a distance.

Lots of people just don’t get why H having a male partner on dancing on ice is so significant, some people were saying vile things on twitter because it made john barrowman cry. Some people have no idea what it’s like to constantly have to hide how you really are, I would love to be able to hold my boyfriends hand, but it isn’t safe to do it.

If homophobia wasn’t still a problem I would have a family, the press wouldn’t hound people out of the closet, the press wouldn’t have tried to tell Gareth Thomas’ parents about his HIV status.