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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be so sad and angry about the loss of the Erasmus scheme

225 replies

Biber · 09/01/2020 08:21

Yesterday the government voted against an amendment to the Withdrawal Agreement Bill that would have aimed to keep the Erasmus scheme open for our youngsters.

I knew brexit woud bring losses to our children but it feels like a punch in the gut that parliament have voted so clearly against my grandchildren having the opportunity for funded study in another EU country. Just as it is being extended to people in apprentiships too.

To be so sad and angry about the loss of the Erasmus scheme
OP posts:
livefornaps · 09/01/2020 12:25

Lol they get told it's really hard and as a result no one bothers and those that can barely stutter out a sentence get told they are fluent. It's ridiculous.

nibdedibble · 09/01/2020 12:27

ACautionaryTale

It's not that it was easier, it's that the message it sends is that it's a positive thing to foster good relationships between neighbouring nations. That co-operation and cultural exchange is a wholly valuable and desirable thing. When you take down a barrier to something that could be done perfectly well with other resources, the message is a positive one.

theoriginalmadambee · 09/01/2020 12:31

@ACautionaryTale
Not sure if you are being goady, but

  1. Most universities have a limited number of spaces for foreign students. Being in Erasmus should enhance your chances to get one.
  1. Instead of only offering foreign education (higher education) to the highly driven, super intelligent, well connected, well off - eg. 1 in a 100, don't you think it would be to the good of your country to maybe cut the less driven some slag and get eg. 10 in a 100 a better/broader education?
Peregrina · 09/01/2020 12:35

The thing with being older is you rmember pre-EU life. And amazingly most things that are being 'lost' existed back then... so they probably will again, just with different names!

Well yes they did, but at a time when most children left school at 15 university was mostly for wealthy male students. Female students who made it to higher education tended to get fobbed off with teacher training courses. Exchanges did happen, but not many.

Being of this sort of age myself, I do in fact recall one contemporary who left school at 15 and had enough nous to go and get an au pair job in Italy, learnt the language, and planned to stay there. But she was one in a hundred - most did not have that ambition.

Is having ambition a crime? Or is it only for those with money?

Songsofexperience · 09/01/2020 12:38

acautionarytale

Just because you overachieved in your own life and against the odds doesn't mean only people similar to you (or the very wealthy) should have access to foreign exchanges. It's incredibly elitist. Not everyone is brilliant or exceptionally driven. So what? Should they not benefit from such opportunities? Why deny the chance to the bulk of decent students out there?
The whole point of Erasmus was to make experience abroad much more commonplace.
(And yet remainers are branded as the supposed 'metropolitan elite'...)

Peregrina · 09/01/2020 12:38

madambee - I see we have both made much the same point.

ACautionaryTale · 09/01/2020 12:39

We tried that which is why you now need a degree to do jobs that didn’t need one before.

University is not, or should not, be for the majority.

Natsku · 09/01/2020 12:40

Very sad, I loved my Erasmus year, it was how I ended up moving to Finland (though on the flip side, it was also how I ended up dropping out of University...)

TurnTurnTurn · 09/01/2020 12:41

ACautionaryTale - while I'm sure that you are very intelligent and determined and that people like you can always create their own opportunities, I see Erasmus and other student or research exchange schemes as something more than giving these experiences to "the cream".

If you make something easier, well-advertised and government-backed, more people are likely to take the opportunity and the benefits will spread further in society. More people might focus on learning other languages and cultures in order to access the opportunity.

My DCs speak several languages, hold dual nationality and knew their own way around an airport by the age of ten. I'm sure that we could fix up a placement at an overseas institution for them when university age comes around, if required. However, I don't just want this opportunity to be available for them. I want it for their British schoolfriends too, including those whose family horizons begin and end in their home town.

nibdedibble · 09/01/2020 12:41

ACautionaryTale's response is just symptomatic of where the UK is right now, though, isn't it? If you can't see a personal benefit, it's not worth having. Such small thinking. I hate the UK and what it's become.

Songsofexperience · 09/01/2020 12:42

Whenever I hear arguments such as "we'll still be able to do xyz if we're good enough/ want it enough" I think of the 99% of people who will be or do neither. Why punish them for it?
I thought brexit was meant to be an exciting project for all of Britain... but really it's gearing up to be a constant test of our mettle. Social Darwinism in action I suppose.

ssd · 09/01/2020 12:42

Ds1 benefitted from erasmus last year. Ds would have benefitted next year but won't now. We all voted to remain and for independence.
We are stuffed at every angle

But still, Englandshire has its sovereignty back. Hurraah!!

titchy · 09/01/2020 12:45

you now need a degree to do jobs that didn’t need one before

Do you not think teachers or nurses should need degrees then? That's where the majority of growth has been in the last 30 years - the number and length of training for both professions hasn't changed, just that the final award is a degree now so that comment is somewhat disingenuous.

ssd · 09/01/2020 12:45

We're as far from the elite as you'd get. Ds1 first in the family to go to uni, we're from council schemes and household income just 31k.
Erasmus gave ds1 a chance we'd never have been able to give him.

theoriginalmadambee · 09/01/2020 12:51

peregrina Smile

Can I just say that I don't think you can compare how UK was pre EU to now. Now most of Europe is in the EU, they weren't then. For good or bad EU is not just a trade union anymore. And finally if you (brexiteers/government) really hate us (EU) this much, you will be much more alienated than pre 1972.

Trewser · 09/01/2020 12:54

My understanding is that they're not voting against Erasmus. They're voting against being compelled to include a right to continue in Erasmus, in the negotiations. They're doing that because if they have to bring back an Erasmus deal then the EU can use that to influence negotiations

Yes this is correct.

Roussette · 09/01/2020 17:50

I hear you brits who think you are 'good' at languages every day - you all suck at it

So one of my DCs who is fluent in Spanish, and uses her languages, and has also worked in Brazil using Portuguese as they didn't speak any English sucks at it.
Don't be silly

MrsJoshNavidi · 09/01/2020 17:58

I did a year at an EU university before the Erasmus scheme existed. People will still be able to study abroad if they want to.

ssd · 09/01/2020 18:06

Did you get funding towards costs abroad MrsJoshNavidi?

livefornaps · 09/01/2020 18:24

Rousette unless you yourself are fluent in Spanish you have no way of judging if your child is fluent in spanish. The language situation in the uk is so utterly dire that those who have an okay-ish level are lavished in praise and led to believe they are basically bilingual while in comparison to the grasp of english obtained by people from other countries they are wooooeeeefully mediocre. You can all stay on your island gibbering English to each other - it's what you wanted.

CherryPavlova · 09/01/2020 18:39

I think many will still be able to study abroad; unfortunately they will be the more affluent if we lose Erasmus which further polarises society and inhibits meritocracy.

ssd · 09/01/2020 18:49

Exactly see my post above about ds benefitting from erasmus.

Ds2 won't, we are in no position to find him without erasmus.

But his well off contempories will be fine.

Not that I expect anything else from the tories.

Hope the working class tory voters are happy.

theoriginalmadambee · 09/01/2020 20:16

@ssd Not my business at all, but do try to look for scholarships and other funding. Perhaps if you choose smaller universities they may offer help.

livefornaps why so angry? If you aren't in the UK, it shouldn't matter that much to you.

I get that some brits are very fast at pointing a finger at those, who are not completely fluent, and are very mistrustful. But really does it matter?

TurquoiseDress · 09/01/2020 20:20

This such a huge shame!

I did an Erasmus year abroad and it really was the best experience ever.

It saddens me that the students coming through from now on will likely find it much harder to secure their year abroad or at least will have to fight a lot more bureaucracy & red tape.

Doesn't say much for the UK with respect to foreign languages, it just serves to reinforce our insularity from the rest of Europe/the world.

Roussette · 09/01/2020 22:04

@livefornaps

Umm... I think I do know. She got a degree in Spanish 9 years ago. She has lived in Spain and works for a Spanish company, at times in Spain and Mexico, with non English speakers. So just jog on

My DH is fluent in Spanish also and has a working knowledge of German French and Italian.

Languages are a thing in our family. No idea why you've directed that post at me.

You can all stay on your island gibbering English to each other - it's what you wanted
Why are you saying this to me? Are you on the sauce?