To be so sad and angry about the loss of the Erasmus scheme

[Biber]

Yesterday the government voted against an amendment to the Withdrawal Agreement Bill that would have aimed to keep the Erasmus scheme open for our youngsters.

I knew brexit woud bring losses to our children but it feels like a punch in the gut that parliament have voted so clearly against my grandchildren having the opportunity for funded study in another EU country. Just as it is being extended to people in apprentiships too.

@bonnieconnie You don’t need Erasmus to have this kind of program though, it’s not like this will prevent students from doing a year/semester abroad if they really want to.

It will prevent the students who don't have parents with the money or the contacts to arrange it.

I have been working on a Brexit project for 3 years in the financial services industry. What is far more worrying than the Erasmus programme is the huge fall in pupils numbers studying MFL beyond GCSE in this country. This is particularly true for French where the numbers have almost halved at A level over 10 years.
The city is a global finance centre and needs language speakers. The UK has had years to prepare for Brexit but the numbers studying languages continues to fall. University exchanges allowing students to spend a year studying in another language will continue whatever they are called, the real crisis is the tiny number who will go abroad to learn a language.

I didn’t need parental money or parental contacts to arrange my exchange with the US. I just came home the end of a semester and told them it was happening.

All it took was some gumption and get up and go on my part.

Oh, and that was before the age of the internet where you had to ask around and phone or write to people to find out the information not just click a few keys.

Acautionarytale as I said my DS' year abroad in an EU member country was fully funded under the Erasmus scheme but my goddaughter, who was studying American literature at a very well respected English uni, could not get any funding whatsoever for her obligatory year at a US university.
Her parents researched widely to find if any was available. It was not. They had to pay ££££.
Your experience of a three/four year course at a US institution is not the same at all, if it was fully funded perhaps you were eligible for a scholarship of some kind, but many, if not most, people will not be.
The only conditions attached to the Erasmus undergraduate scheme were that you had to be at an educational establishment in one EU member state who wanted to study in another EU country for part of your course. If so, you got the funding. All fees were paid and you got decent living expenses.

Nurseries benefited too! (There's an erasmus logo on DSs nurserys website)

I think its very sad, after Brexit DC/young adults with rich/connected etc. parents will still get lots of lovely travel opportunities abroad and the DC who were lucky and got it through school/university/charity projects (or just being brave and going to be a hairdresser on ships like my neighboir or kids holiday rep in Spain) will get them a lot less.

MotherWol

Thank you for explaining it so succinctly.

All those who say... just approach a Uni in another country and GO. Just use your gumption and get up and go... not as easy as that for some. Imagine a student with a somewhat chaotic home, their Tutor sees some potential and steers them towards Erasmus abroad, they get a grant, they can go without jumping through hoops.

A young lad I know, his DPs fought tooth and nail against him going to Uni in the first place. ('Uni is a waste of money, don't be silly, get a job at Tesco up the road blah blah) If it wasn't for his teachers at school helping him, it would not have happened. Studying abroad would have been unsurmountable for him to arrange on his own.

@cakeisalwaystheanswer
the real crisis is the tiny number who will go abroad to learn a language.

I'm sorry, but I'm from an EU country, our experience is that British speaking students are some of the least interested in speaking anything but English. At my ds's dorm the only ones less willing were Americans.

Concerning Erasmus, I cannot see why your government should vote against it. Is it because you don't want to receive students in exchange for those you send abroad? Why?

Well, “we” voted to come out. Can’t have our cake and eat it.

I think, we’re fucked once were out.

madambee I have no idea why. It is enriching for all.

Surprised at the lack of interest in speaking another language. Totally the opposite from my experience with the students I knew. My DC is fluent in another language through Erasmus and uses it in her job

YANBU, but the British have been undermining Erasmus for years. At state schools in the 90s, nobody ever told me the scheme existed: teachers must have known, but chose not to pass that information on. Now ordinary people do seem to know (because the internet let the cat out of the bag when it came to so many opportunities hidden in plain sight?) but we're into the era of £10k a year tuition fees, which again discourages and disadvantages those who might have benefited from the scheme.

None of this is a criticism of Erasmus as such, but it does show how Brifain has self-sabotaged over the decades leading inevitably to Brexit: firstly by understating and under-promoting the perks of EU membership and secondly with its own ridiculous class system which quite deliberately reserves for a few the opportunities which should be available for the many.

MadameBee that is sad indeed and unfortunately until we make foreign languages a compulsory part of the school curriculum from an early age many kids will duck out of them as soon as they can as they are perceived to be 'difficult'.
We should start teaching foreign languages in an informal way at primary school, make it fun and normal.
.

As Biarritzcrackers said, the government itself has said it wanted to carry on with Erasmus. I'm bothered by the amendment being voted down but not 100 per cent convinced that means no more Erasmus (I work in an industry where it's important and we are keeping an eye on this). Keeping an open mind at the moment.

Perhaps sone of the rich people and conpanies in both UK and EU who are keen to support continued relations including this ans similar schemes could set up scholarships/ bursaries/ grants etc to help young people from the UK access education in the EU post departure?

Btw a few none-eu members are in the Erasmus scheme, Switzerland is one, so it is doable to negotiate.

A result of morons trying to block brexit at every turn. By default the government will vote against any amendments now

I've seen some ludicrous Brexiteer arguments in my time, but really? That's the equivalent of an abusive husband claiming that his wife made him hit her.

madambee - at least they were there trying to learn a language. Not many do.

Makes me even more glad that I speak French and German. I wonder how many younger people are going to become translators now. I do worry a lot about Brexit affecting jobs, but then I've done stuff in US English so I guess there's the American market as well.

@Kazzyhoward

It's not that easy under the EU. Huge numbers of tiny businesses have stopped selling into the EU because of VAT and the stupid MOSS scheme. Small businesses don't have the time nor inclination to check each individual EU country's VAT registration limits, rates and rules. The EU should have brought standardisation/harmonisation in something like VAT, but no, each country sets it's own thresholds, rates and rules. I've got clients who have set their websites to not accept sales from EU countries and who only sell to either the UK or countries outside the EU. So much for the EU making trade easier - it's not!

I was puzzled by your statement so have asked business friends for their comments, and got these responses:

"Gordon Brown blocked EU-wide VAT. The UK is responsible for this, not the rest of the EU"

www.accountancyage.com/2017/06/23/brexit-whats-next-for-vat/

The problem is that if you haven't done it, it's hard to imagine the benefits that a year abroad brings. Mine was the absolute making of me as an individual but more than that, it gave me transferable skills to use going forward ie it made me a useful employee. Coming from a pretty working-class background, even though we'd lived abroad when I was a little girl, it gave me easy access to something which for the more privileged is perhaps a given.

There's a real dearth of understanding about what is a barrier to advancement if you grow up less privileged. And it's calculated. Keep the plebs down, those with money will do what they always did anyway.

You're only being unreasonable if you voted to leave and now you're gutted by the consequences! If you voted remain you have every right to be sad and angry.....and it probably won't be the last time over the coming months!

YABU becuse the country has voted to leave the EU and it wouldnt be right to start cherry picking and keep all the good bits from being in the EU (such as Erasmus) whilst saying the UK is leaving.

Sorry but voting Leave also meant voting leaving Erasmus (and all the benefits british universities were getting from being part of the huge network Europe is as well as the finacial support, exchange of researchers etc...).

VATMOSS is nothing to do with Brown, though - it was introduced a few years ago on digital goods. There are something like 75 different VAT rates across the EU, there is very little harmony.

Btw a few none-eu members are in the Erasmus scheme, Switzerland is one, so it is doable to negotiate

Switzerland is in Schengen and is part of the Single Market. A lot closer than Little England will be by the looks of it.

It’s appalling.

But presumably this kind of insularity is what the brexiteers voted for?

Thank god I’ve left the UK. How depressing to deliberately impoverish and isolate your country like this.