To be so sad and angry about the loss of the Erasmus scheme

[Biber]

Yesterday the government voted against an amendment to the Withdrawal Agreement Bill that would have aimed to keep the Erasmus scheme open for our youngsters.

I knew brexit woud bring losses to our children but it feels like a punch in the gut that parliament have voted so clearly against my grandchildren having the opportunity for funded study in another EU country. Just as it is being extended to people in apprentiships too.

@Biber - "parliament have voted". Nope. The UK citizens voted for this when they voted 52% to 48% to leave the EU.
The UK Parliament is just implementing what the UK citizens voted for, which is to leave the EU.
The Erasmus scheme is for EU citizens, therefore the UK doesn't get to enjoy the benefits of being an EU citizen as they have left the EU.

Not exactly rocket science.

You won't be able to trade as easily, if at all, with EU countries.

It's not that easy under the EU. Huge numbers of tiny businesses have stopped selling into the EU because of VAT and the stupid MOSS scheme. Small businesses don't have the time nor inclination to check each individual EU country's VAT registration limits, rates and rules. The EU should have brought standardisation/harmonisation in something like VAT, but no, each country sets it's own thresholds, rates and rules. I've got clients who have set their websites to not accept sales from EU countries and who only sell to either the UK or countries outside the EU. So much for the EU making trade easier - it's not!

You don’t need Erasmus to have this kind of program though, it’s not like this will prevent students from doing a year/semester abroad if they really want to. Not to mention this vote means that issues that are actually important won’t be sidelined by negotiations about a student exchange program. This is one of those times when people have to be realistic about priorities.

As is the votes against trying to ensure unaccompanied child refugees are united with their parents

And that is both heartbreaking and disgusting but let's find a Brexiteer to put a good spin on that shall we....

I haven’t read the thread, so forgive me if I’m repeating other’s posts, but a lot of people don’t realise that the Erasmus programme benefitted kids in Secondary school as well- it widened the horizons of lots of kids in our local high school- which has a very disadvantaged catchment. It is heartbreaking that it’s coming to an end.

@lilmisstoldyouso you don’t need to be part of the EU to trade with them. How do you think it works?

But Bonny you could get a Grant for your year abroad with Erasmus. That won't happen now and this will disadvantage poorer families

Is that not logical? You said it yourself, it depends on what are you look at. I worked for years arranging access to all sorts of opportunities and individuals with money would have been excluded, wouldn't have met the criteria. I am saying that these days, with the great changes in access to HE, such schemes will have to be different!

And the Erasmus figues for disadvantaged students aren't really all that fantastic! It has never paid enough to make up the additional expense incurred, thus blocking the poortest from taking it up!

I just don't think the doom and gloom is productive

Where do you read any doom and gloom in my posts?? I'm criticising the government for its approach. That's neither doom nor gloom nor self-defeating!
PPs have pointed out they may save the scheme yet. If so, great. If not, I'll stand by my view that it's silly.
And I'm fully aware that there are exchanges with non EU countries. DS is at uni. He did a summer programme at an EU uni (very very easy; not Erasmus mind you, but made easy by EU membership). He's looking at an exchange with a non EU uni next year (not easy at all paperwise).

Yes it's really sad. My friend ran the Erasmus scheme at her primary school and it exposed children in quite a closed community to brand new ideas and experiences they would probably never otherwise have had. It's not just for rich kids on a jolly during university.

I’m gutted. My Erasmus year was the best year of my life! I made some firm friendships and learnt so much. It’s so sad and short-sighted that future generations won’t get the same experience

The exchange programs will still be there but on a university to university basis.

I did an exchange with the US - spent three years in total at a US university as an undergrad and then as a post grad. All exchange and all funded.

If, and its an IF, ERASMUS does go then it is not the end to exchange programs. For those who are saying that it gives opportunities to those who couldn't afford it otherwise, so do normal exchanges. If your DC is bright enough to go to university and interested enough to travel during it, they will find out about the exchanges anyway,

However I do agree that this is just about the negotiators not being forced to come back with anything - and is the same reason why taking no deal off the table leaves negotiators with little leverage. If the opposition know your top and bottom line, they call the shots.

Where do you read any doom and gloom in my posts?? I don't think I said YOUR doom and gloom!

Bonny small business owners are scruppered. From being able to trade with ease with EU companies, they are now having to fill out 10 pieces of paper for one item and if they export, the receivers have to fill out 10 pieces of paper. Some small companies just do not have the manpower or money to do this.

The EU only comprises 27 (not counting the U.K.) countries out of 200 or so worldwide. Somehow we manage to run exchanges with many of those other countries, including the U.S. and Japan, without needing Erasmus to do it. I’m sure we can extend this expertise to include the EU ones. If a thing is worth doing, people find a way.

Songs Can I just say that I REALLY was not referring to you in my posts. I was making general comments based on the general tone of many of these threads. If you read it as a personal comment, so be it. But that is not what was intended.

I also post elsewhere, where the gerneal tone is bullish and post Brexit. I say much the same things as I do here and am often berated, chastised in much the same way as I am here.

Not being very pro or con Brexit, not wanting to lay blame, but wanting parliament to wake the fuck up and do the job they are paid to do, is not easily accepted by Remainer or Leavers, I have found. I suspect because it means compromise, losing gorund in some places. Just not being heard in others.

Which is the normal run of things in most areas of life and politics. It just seems more toxic in anything Brexit!

If you read it as a personal comment, so be it. But that is not what was intended.

That's ok, sorry then!!

small business owners are scruppered. From being able to trade with ease with EU companies, they are now having to fill out 10 pieces of paper for one item and if they export, the receivers have to fill out 10 pieces of paper. Some small companies just do not have the manpower or money to do this. But that hjas been happening since we joined the EU. It is not unique to Brexit.

Not so long ago we were posting about the UK wind turbine company that had to close due to red tape hampering its weathering the recession.... and now look. Just 3 years later and we are increasing turbine generated power and many turbines are made by a joint Japanese and Danish conglomerate!

“ I’m sure we can extend this expertise to include the EU ones. If a thing is worth doing, people find a way.”
Great. Who will fund the exchanges that the pupil premium kids at my ds’s school were able to go on?

Who will fund the exchanges that the pupil premium kids at my ds’s school were able to go on? Really? Ye gods!

I too am really sad about this. So unnecessary and insular.
DS studied languages at university and spent his 3rd year abroad at a major European university and absolutely loved it, made firm friends he is still close to nearly 10 years on.
It was fully funded and we didn't have to pay his tuition fees at the UK university for that year. Win-win!
Seriously the experience of actually living in a foreign country was, and is, invaluable.

I was just going to make the point that some people are jumping to conclusions. However, reading down BiarritzCrackers has already done so.

The vote doesn't mean that the UK definitely will not participate in Erasmus, just that the UK cannot now be forced by law to participate.

The doom and gloom is a bit premature IMHO.

Totally agree Tarty

Erasamus+ is not just about students studying abroad. There is also funding available for exchange of knowledge and expertise and for research projects. I'm currently putting together an application for a research project. We have decided not to ask a very qualified UK department to join us on the application because of the uncertainty. Theoretically applications can still include UK partners. Realistically, nobody I know is willing to consider taking a UK partner on board for a new project.

YANBU - I work for a Russell Group university; Erasmus is massively beneficial, and it's not just about students being able to study abroad, the staff mobility/exchange programme is excellent as well. Yes, there are exchange programmes with other countries, but each university has to forge their own partnership, and we're talking a few dozen students each year, not hundreds; and that's at a university that is very able to arrange partnerships. We're also unlikely to join the post 2020 phase of Horizon Europe - time's running out and we/the government are just not ready. It's a pretty bleak picture for higher education, both in terms of education, and research.