To be so sad and angry about the loss of the Erasmus scheme

[Biber]

Yesterday the government voted against an amendment to the Withdrawal Agreement Bill that would have aimed to keep the Erasmus scheme open for our youngsters.

I knew brexit woud bring losses to our children but it feels like a punch in the gut that parliament have voted so clearly against my grandchildren having the opportunity for funded study in another EU country. Just as it is being extended to people in apprentiships too.

It has provided brilliant opportunities for young people from homes where they wouldn't have had the opportunity to travel at the place where I am a governor, we've had so many pupils benefit massively from it and it's raised confidence levels so they have felt able to apply to university whereas they probably wouldn't have done before. It's had a massive impact for some on their engagement with academic work as a result of the staff encouraging them to apply for the programme.

I am furious about it, it's a disgusting show of lack of interest in the young people in this country who don't have a wealthy set of parents with stella connections to be able to arrange this kind of opportunity for their children themselves.

My university has pledged to maintain abroad exchanges if the erasmus goes out the window. It is a shame but I imagine it will be worked out somehow.

The thing with being older is you rmember pre-EU life. And amazingly most things that are being 'lost' existed back then... so they probably will again, just with different names!

Maybe... and it will be much more bureaucratic!
I thought a benefit of brexit was cutting red tape but in fact everything post brexit already sounds like a huge faff just to get something vaguely similar...

What will happen is simply only a handful of privileged Brits will go on those as yet undefined exchanges. The rest won't go anymore. Cheers.

This is gutting. My Erasmus year was amazing - life-changing. We can second guess about potential replacement arrangements and about Brexit Johnson re-introducing Erasmus down the line ... but that's all it is - guessing. The facts before us are that the current government have voted against guaranteeing the scheme. I see them.

True, I certainly can. It was shite. OK! If you say so!

I remember lots of things that were better, lots that could have been better if EU rules had not been the answer and much that was worse - not surprising given it was so long ago... technology and all that!

But I am not an ardent Remainer or Leaver and so don't have a soapbox to defend!

Well that's what happens when you leave a club. Why on earth do people think that nothing is going to change post Brexit?

You won't be able to travel as freely as you do now.

You won't be able to live in the EU without negotiating significant red tape, even then your options will be extremely limited.

You won't be able to trade as easily, if at all, with EU countries.

The whole thing is a mess.

My understanding is that they're not voting against Erasmus. They're voting against being compelled to include a right to continue in Erasmus, in the negotiations. They're doing that because if they have to bring back an Erasmus deal then the EU can use that to influence negotiations. They want to sit down at the negotiation without the other side knowing their red lines.
I don't know how committed the Tories will be to keeping Erasmus when they do come to discuss it but I don't think it's lost yet. Creating an impression that it is already lost might even let the Tories think that people have already adjusted to its loss. That's counter-productive if you want to save it.

Fair enough. But if you're a pragmatist you'll admit it's bonkers to scrap a perfectly fine exchange system for... what exactly?!

(Last post in response to curious)

I’m hoping Scottish government fund this as my daughter is in 2nd year at Uni and this was a major factor in her picking her course and Uni with their ties in Europe! So short sighted

I can remember life pre EU. I don't think life changed that much for many British people.
I do remember having exchange students at school. I've never heard of the Erasmus scheme, neither of my sons ever mentioned it

I thought a benefit of brexit was cutting red tape But we have huge amounts of EU red tape - just a few years ago we were bemoaning fishing quotas that meant tonnes of 'the wrong' dead fish being thrown back into the sea. And, no matter what revisionists would have us believe, the weird fruit and veg packaging regs and what that mean for growers (for a while). Farming subsidies that force farmers to rely upon them rather than fair prices for fair produce (not saying tghe old Milk Mareting board was the right answer, but it was a better one for dairy farmers). Charitable works having to fill in nigh on incomprehensible forms to maintain essential funding - which can be lost for ephemeral reasoning!

All of these have copious amounts of red tape because of the EU. All we are seeing now is a different form, different questions, different return address.

YANBU.

Regardless of this government's motivation or intention this week, their past record and my personal experience of working in this area means that I wouldn't bet any money on them prioritising or protecting continued UK participation in Erasmus or the big EU Horizon 2020 research programme (in which the UK had a fabulous record of setting the agenda, winning funding and leading research projects). It would be nice if they did these things, of course, but it would also be supremely naive to rely on it.

Many forward-thinking UK universities and research organisations have been out and about around Europe ever since the 2016 referendum result, building or reinforcing existing bilateral relationships with counterparts in key countries and institutions so that there is a viable Plan B if / when the UK government lets them down again.

I see this latest development as a further indicator that this is the right thing for HE and research orgs to do. Don't wait for the government - get out there, rework the systems as best you can, and make sure that funding, people and knowledge can still flow as needed.

Songs I think the entire negotiations have been a mess and that the MPs should never have triggered Art 50 without having an idea what Brexit would look like and considering which parts of our relationship with Europe were to be protected eg Erasmus - the UK being involved is beneficial to the students from other countries who visit here too. Imagine if they had ring-fenced different working groups eg arts; education; science; trade. We could have had a comprehensive, fully-rounded approach rather than this acrimonious dog's dinner. I'm ashamed of the lot of them.

But if you're a pragmatist you'll admit it's bonkers to scrap a perfectly fine exchange system for... what exactly?! Why should I know the answer to that? Our parliament has spent 3 years trying to define it... what hope do I have?

Your assumption is based on your perception of the EU / Erasmus being 'perfectly fine' Many would disagree with some or all of that assumption!

If yoiu mean just the Erasmus scheme I don't think it will, ling term, make much differnce. Cries of 'only theposh' are baseless. Education has been changed so much over the last few decades that what went before will not work again.. financially the increased numbers of students now has to be maintained and, as ever, that will include exchange students.

All we are seeing now is a different form, different questions, different return address.

Right, so we will still have red tape to deal with- plus all the new forms we'll have to fill out if we want to do anything with the EU (and that we will!). Again, i bet you there'll be no saving on bureaucracy whatsoever.

Katy That is only too true. Had parliament done its bloody job from day 1we could have had a very different outcome across the board. Shame is the very least I feel about our politicians. Sadly I doubt the next batch will be much better.

My will be doing a degree with a year out abroad. He's got offers but not yet decided which Uni to choose. All his offer universities offered America, Australia and Canada as the overseas study partners, none were Europe. We asked at the Open Days whether Brexit would affect them and all told us no because the "exchanges" were nothing to do with Europe and would definitely go ahead as planned regardless as they'd been doing exchanges with Unis in those countries for decades.

I can remember life pre EU. I don't think life changed that much for many British people.
I do remember having exchange students at school. I've never heard of the Erasmus scheme, neither of my sons ever mentioned it

Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean to say it isn't absolutely wonderful. It gives opportunities to kids who come from families and who can't afford to send them off for a year.

Millions of young people have benefited from this scheme. On Twitter there are journalists, Professors, Academics all saying that without Erasmus they would not be where they are today

One of my DCs is a fluent spanish speaker who studied in Spain for a year through Erasmus and that gave her the lift up to now have a high up position in a major worldwide Spanish company.

If I had younger children now, I would be continually lobbying my MP about this. Apathy lets these things happen

OP... I started a thread on this elsewhere this morning, I've just asked for it to be deleted.

Again, i bet you there'll be no saving on bureaucracy whatsoever. Bet me what you like! I am not actually disgreeing with you! I just don't think the doom and gloom is productive. It is as boring and self defeating in any individual as it was from politicians and parliament as a whole!

If yoiu mean just the Erasmus scheme I don't think it will, ling term, make much differnce. Cries of 'only theposh' are baseless.

I'm just saying that ease of access makes a huge difference whatever area of business or academia you're talking about. Less of it = more difficult access (obviously) = less opportunities overall. I therefore conclude there will be less students taking part. Usually, the wealthier you are, the more likely you are to deal with various hurdles as you can absorb higher costs.
Is that not logical?

Yes @Saddler everything shit about Brexit is clearly a result of people who don't want Brexit, try to stop it.

Yes it is very sad. As is the votes against trying to ensure unaccompanied child refugees are united with their parents. I can't believe the public voted for a government who acts like this.

Not a great surprise. A real shame but not a great surprise.

I hope you’re right, @BiarritzCrackers.