Challenge 25 ID policy.

[Wayland1]

Hello,

What do you think of the policy that requires shops to ask for ID from anybody who looks like they are under the age of 25 when they buy age-restricted products?

It's stupid because all people have to do to get around it is to just put the money on the counter and walk out with the item they are buying. But the notices are still nonetheless very unpleasant to have to look at.

What do you think?

Does Challenge 21 still exist, I was led to believe that it was Challenge 21 then if they failed that it went up to Challenge 25...

There was a Challenge 21 policy at my university union in 2018 and I got ID’d... aged 40. I had thought everywhere was Challenge 25 but apparently not.

Can’t understand people who get upset about being IDd. Just carry ID on you, you’re presumably already carrying a method of payment, or you wouldn’t be in the shop, what’s so hard?

I would actually find it a little bit hard as I use either my phone or watch to pay for things usually and if I needed ID then I would have to carry my passport. Fortunately I am over 50 and haven’t been challenged since I was 40 (at which point I and my friends simply left and went elsewhere as people young enough to be our children were being served with no ID so we clearly weren’t young enough to drink in that establishment).

Can’t understand people who get upset about being IDd. Just carry ID on you, you’re presumably already carrying a method of payment, or you wouldn’t be in the shop, what’s so hard?

Well, I suppose it’s because not everyone agrees with mandatory carrying of ID. It’s not something that we have in the UK (yet) and there are many who don’t want it.

When people are being ID’d for age-related products when there is no way (to be polite) that they could be under 16/21/25, whatever, then it starts to get a bit irritating. Especially when you factor in 40 year olds being refused a bottle of wine at the weekly shop because their school aged child is with them, or - better yet - 22 yos with ID being refused sales because they have their 50 yo mother with them and she can’t produce ID.

If the UK had mandatory carrying of ID, then perhaps it wouldn’t be such an annoyance. But in the meantime, applying ID policies to people well over 25 seems a bit like mandatory-ID-by stealth.

I'm not in the UK. How do your prove your age without an ID card?

The till doesnt refuse the sale[unless outside licensing laws]The cashier either presses yes or no.
If the cashier asks for i.d. the cashier presses no then puts in the person's d.o.b the till decides to process the sale or not. Nothing to do.with the cashier.

But if the till accepts you are legally allowed to buy alcohol and the cashier still refuses on your apparent age alone then ask to speak to.manager.
Just remember we have both mystery shoppers and undercover agents trying to catch us out so every one will err on the side of caution to.avoid losing licence to sell alcohol.

I'm not in the UK. How do your prove your age without an ID card?

You can’t. That’s the point. When very clearly adult looking 40 - 50 yos (check out DM stories) are being ID’d for age-restricted products by shop assistants terrified of a £1,000 fine, we have a situation that is going to lead to de facto mandatory ID.

Whether mandatory ID should be in place is perhaps a debate to be had, but it shouldn’t be brought in through the back door because of age-restricted policies being applied in this way.

But the notices are still nonetheless very unpleasant to have to look at.

Maybe it's the design? The colour?

I'm not in the UK. How do your prove your age without an ID card?

Driving licence, passport or something with the Pass hologram.

It is because a lot of teens under the age of 18 dress themselves up and look older than 18, I once remember a girl I knew asking a guy how old they thought she was and they said 22, she was 15, but it is difficult for someone under 18 to make themselves look over 25, that is why.
It doesn't just protect the minors and the shop, it protects the customer service assistant too. The shop can get a fine and/or loose their licence to sell alcohol, the person serving can get a fine, sacked and/or a prison sentence for serving it.
As for your other point OP you can't just put money on the till and walk out with it, the majority of age restricted products are usually behind the counter and even if it isn't they need to be scanned and go through the till so if you do walk out with it you are stealing.

This one I think is poorly worded, since according to its logic if you are not under 25, no need to carry ID.

Even the ones that state if you look under 25 are a bit because “looking” is subjective and what appears under 25 may not to another, including the owner of the face!

But I suppose the posters have to say something, and I’m still struggling to see how they are “unpleasant”.

But one thing that really stood out to me, not having been brought up in the UK, is how few people had ID on them when I first moved here.

The British people have historically been opposed to the idea of mandatory ID cards. They were introduced during the Second World War (with the law that everyone had to carry it at all times) and repealed in 1952. The government in the 2000s took steps to reintroduce them, but the Con-LD coalition scrapped them in 2010 before they had been made compulsory for British citizens. (Opposition was to the national database of personal details, including fingerprints and other biometrics, as much as to the card itself).

Speaking personally, I do normally have my driving license in my wallet, but I would consider it very unreasonable to be banned from leaving my home without carrying a plastic card with me, as is the law in some European countries.

To be fair safari, it's only since the driving licence became credit card sized that people started to be physically able to carry that around as ID.

Add to the act you have to prove yourself for any major cash transaction - we do have ID cards by stealth

I tried to withdraw £1000 the other day - had more than enough funds. Why I wanted it was my business. The bank wanted to know why I wanted it (none of their business) and wanted additional ID other than my bank card. No need.

We have sleep walked into an ID state which I for one wanted no part of.

That sounds more to do with rules surrounding money laundering @ACautionaryTale. Another thing that employees can get into trouble for if they don't ask the right questions and have everything correct.

I find it annoying tbh. I don’t have a passport as I never go on holiday. and don’t have a license as I don’t drive so it’s annoying being asked for ID when I am 31 with 4 kids with me! Got asked for id to buy knives the other day which as I said I don’t just so couldn’t buy them. Went into another shop and got served with no fuss!

Don’t just should be don’t have*

if you are mature enough to use age restricted items then you should be mature enough to understand the importance of working together to ensure that those who are under-age don't get access to those items. that means cooperating with these sensible ID policies. it is certainly entirely possible for a 17yo to pass as 20+ so it is sensible to have a wide margin of error by making thre cut off "appearance" age being a few years older.

any premises that are set up such that someone could take an age restricted product off the shelf, drop the cash on the counter and leave without being challenged, will not keep their licence for selling age restricted products.

A few years ago I got ID’d buying chopping boards because the system triggered it as ‘knives’ 😂. Staff member was a bit embarrassed and too young to do anything other than what the system told him.

I used to find it annoying and then flattering and was secretly pleased. Now with child no.2 and grey hairs no one asks me anymore. I was quite sad when I realised I’d gone past the point of ID being needed.

You can't just saunter out having left the correct money. The inventory is held on the till so the cashier needs to put through the SKU via the barcode to minus it off. We're not operating in a world of those little toy cash tills with number buttons along the top.

YABU

But one thing that really stood out to me, not having been brought up in the UK, is how few people had ID on them when I first moved here. In Europe we all had ID cards and in N. America, too. It seemed sort of, well, backwards.

We consider it an important principle that we don’t have to justify our existence to the state if we’re just going about our business. It’s why the concept of ID cards is disliked here. It isn’t backwards, It’s an important aspect of living in a free country that I suspect we’ll lose soon.

To be fair safari, it's only since the driving licence became credit card sized that people started to be physically able to carry that around as ID.

I still have a paper licence which isn’t acceptable as it is not photo ID. I’m not going to get a photo card one until I have to as photocard ones have to be replaced every 10 years at a cost. My paper has been valid since 1992 with no further cost.

In America, they need your ID to swipe their machine before it lets you pay. No ID, no item.

How old are you, OP?