To want to see my friend without her very young children?

[Festivefrolicsnextyear]

My friend has a four year old and a two year old. Since she had them, I’ve seen her without them twice for a concert that tickets were already booked for. I’ve never seen her without both children since she had the youngest.

I have kids myself and I know how these threads go - she’s married, with a supportive husband, both her parents and sister are alive and live locally, her PILs are also alive and live locally. I’ve been at their house due to go out for lunch with her dh there and watching telly and she’s still packed the children up to come out with us.

They are lovely kids. But they are still young kids. They walk slowly. They need naps. They interrupt constantly.

I think it’s just a fixed habit by now - they go where she goes.

Is there a polite way of saying ‘shall we do X and don’t bring the kids?’

I do socialise more than my dh, in the evenings. At the weekends I sometimes pop out for an hour for a swim or run. He tends to work or be with the kids. I think a lot of men need to be a bit more proactive about time away from kids, and self care. But my dh lacks confidence to arrange stuff.

I don’t think I did catte but I do now as thinking about it she only talks to the children when I’m with her.

The other day was just me watching her parent.

Hilda honestly if her husband is either an inept parent or a controlling abuser I will strip off and run down the street.

And when she says ‘why don’t we have coffee on Sunday?’ in response to your suggestions of drinks on Saturday night that’s your cue to reply with ‘lovely. I’m dying for a childfree catch up and chat, it’ll be great to see you’ and then wait to see what happens. Her reply (if you get one) or whether she brings her kids when you’ve asked her not to, will tell you everything you need to know.

Blimey OP, are you going to poo poo every single suggestion someone makes, or can’t you at least TRY one or two?

“Hi very close friend who I’ve known for years and years, really fancy a child free lunch one Saturday, why don’t we leave the kids with their dads and fix a date later this month?”

I know you’re going to say she’ll just say no, but FFS at least you could try!

And it’s NOT RUDE to suggest it.

I don’t think it’s rude, but I’m pretty sure she would take it as rude and be upset.

If it's pretty much dead anyway then you have nothing to lose by being a bit blunter and asking her to leave the kids at home for a couple of hours.

Or

Invent an imaginary problem you want to discuss without the distractions of kids.

Do either her or her DH work weekends at all ?

No pumpkin

The focus on the DH seems irrelevant unless YOU are going to ask him directly whether he can look after his kids. It’s up to them how they split childcare. I think you either accept the nature of outings with kids (they won’t be little forever) or make some suggestions about child free time and see what she says. If you think your friendship has waned generally that’s another issue but don’t withdraw unnecessarily.

I don’t think it’s rude, but I’m pretty sure she would take it as rude and be upset

But 1) you don’t know for sure unless you try, and 2) if that’s how she takes it then she’s being unreasonable and her behaviour is not your responsibility!

Either this is bothering you enough to try to resolve or it isn’t!

99% of the people who know my friend would say that about her husband - he seems the model husband. Peekaboob up thread said only her best friend knows. It’s not uncommon.

You can discount it, doesn’t matter to me. But have you ever asked her? Hey, why don’t you leave the kids with your DH? If she’s really such an old friend, you should be able to do that? Unless the DH is the elephant in the room that she’s avoiding taking about by chatting to her kids all the time...I have no clue about your friend, clearly, but it’s a thought. And you either you at alternative reasons or ditch the friendship, because you seem pretty hacked off with her with not much compassion left.

For gods sake OP just ask her for a child-free catchup. If she takes it as rude then so be it.
You're actually starting to come across as more frustrating than the friend!

YANBU. One of my uni friends did this, either it was always with the kids and sometimes with her DH too (who didn't even usefully take more control of the kids so she could enjoy more time with friends, he just came for the lunch/going-out element). It was annoying. With her, it wasn't that she didn't want to leave the kids, it was because she saw her (young) kids as mini-adults who had every right to join in every grown-up occasion so they could "experience" it. (at our expense as we'd often end up engaging or entertaining her kids since we were kids-free having made other arrangements for ours to get some kid-free time ...)

OP, you are just going to have to bite the bullet and ask her. If you don't you'll never see her alone and will become more and more resentful.

As for both of you being unable/unwilling to go out for a drink/dinner during the week occasionally, that seems a bit limiting. No-one is suggesting you party hard on a Tuesday but the odd evening out won't kill you!

I agree you need to do something op. You literally have nothing to lose. This isn’t a friendship you want in its current state anyway.

I had a couple of friends (separate groups) who went a bit nuts after kids and wouldn’t leave them, were controlling about their care despite able and willing partners. They both had PND. Neither fully recovered and are still totally anal and enerve about their kids. Literally no other conversation at all other than child related or with children present and the friendships died. Could it be this? It can kill a friendship even though you feel for their mental health, because if someone is totally disinterested in you and anything about you, it’s almost impossible to continue that kind of one sided relationship. Very sad but a natural ending really.

I think the fact that she will go out on a Saturday night with her "mummy friends" says it all. She clearly prefers the company of children or people who talk about children.

I think the friendship is on its last legs.

OP, you've blocked every suggestion made on this thread without actually asking your friend any of them. What were you hoping to get out of this?

I think some women lose sight of themselves as an independent person when they have children. I think you have to look for friends elsewhere, OP.

Hi friend,I’m childfree ,are you? Let’s meet for lunch .
Oh got the kids ? Never mind ,do it another time when your free x

I like this from @Christmaspug

I am pretty much the last of my friends to have a child but all managed the odd child free catch-up.

We would be creative, I used to meet 1 friend for early Ikea breakfast on a sat while dad did the morning stuff.

Another couple, I’d meet mum for a coffee while dad took kids into soft play.
Others obviously evenings, other childcare etc. We didn’t see as regularly as before, but did still interact even if a phone all after kids in bed.

Oh and on a memorable occasion, she brought them to our evening wedding anniversary party which was strictly grown-ups, just because we have rabbits (which they had seen a million times) and they wanted to say goodnight to the rabbits...

I don’t think it’s rude, but I’m pretty sure she would take it as rude and be upset.

But since your current plan is to consider the friendship dead from now on anyway, what have you got to lose?

Why not just pop round of an evening after the kids are in bed if you want an adult chat?

Why the insistence on 'going out'?

Is it adult conversation you want or are you hankering after your previous, child-free, life?

I think it’s because I’d rather let it peter than have her upset and huffy.

Why not just ask her out for dinner one evening? If you meet somewhere at 7.30pm you can be in bed by 10pm.
Or cinema? Go for a coffee before or after?

How frequently are you trying to meet up with her? You mention meals out having to be an infrequent thing but are you asking for quite a lot of her time at the moment? With small children, jobs, family and friends to fit in I often socialise with friends every 2 or 3 months and really can't commit to every/every other weekend.

If she doesn't want to go out in the evenings and only wants to see you with kids in the day time, then you can decide if you want to continue the friendship.

Because I don’t want to drive 30 minutes after nearly an hours commute to work to sit in someone else’s house with someone else’s husband and someone else’s kids then drive back.