To want to see my friend without her very young children?

[Festivefrolicsnextyear]

My friend has a four year old and a two year old. Since she had them, I’ve seen her without them twice for a concert that tickets were already booked for. I’ve never seen her without both children since she had the youngest.

I have kids myself and I know how these threads go - she’s married, with a supportive husband, both her parents and sister are alive and live locally, her PILs are also alive and live locally. I’ve been at their house due to go out for lunch with her dh there and watching telly and she’s still packed the children up to come out with us.

They are lovely kids. But they are still young kids. They walk slowly. They need naps. They interrupt constantly.

I think it’s just a fixed habit by now - they go where she goes.

Is there a polite way of saying ‘shall we do X and don’t bring the kids?’

And for the rest of your post...what?

Personally there's nothing more I'd love than coffee / drinks out with my friend BUT
I have no childcare and my husband is shit and isn't confident enough to look after my little girl on his own. Any night he has, he's just txt me asking when I'm home so it's not worth the hassle.

Also none of my family who are nearby want to babysit, my in-laws say they 'don't do babysitting'.

So yes I understand your frustration and pre baby me would have been pissed but now I'm in that situation myself I can empathise more.

If you are so sure you are right about her DH then maybe that's the wrong bit of my post to focus on. (Though having been a victim of abuse I would say that even my closest friends were unaware - this is the norm in abusive relationships - and you aren't even close enough to this woman to be able to say "Would I be able to meet up with you alone")

Instead maybe have a think about this bit of my post:
However from the sounds of it you also seem quite inflexible. You are very married to the idea that you will meet in certain places and not others, at certain times and not others, and to do certain things and not others - other posters have made suggestions to try to help but you are just dismissing them. While you are both so inflexible - you to where/when you meet and her to bringing her children - then I think your friendship probably is doomed. But if you want to save it the onus is on BOTH of you to be more flexible not just her

"but see it from my point of view, I get in at 5ish, I sort out my own kids tea, bath and bed, I then go out again to a pub to meet friend and then have to be up at 6 the next day?"

Do you need to do kids tea bath and bed every night? You do sound inflexible by ruling out each night. Some of the best catch ups with my friends are straight home to get changed and out to a pub/restaurant (loads of offers on during the week, it's rarely more than £15 each). We're home and in our pjs by 10.

If you can only make it on weekends and she has regular Saturday night plans then your options are weekday nights or something clearly not child friendly like one of those weekend bottomless brunches or a film

Is your husband your DDs dad head?

crusty I’ve answered this so many times now ... she doesn’t want to go out in the evenings and for the above reasons, I am with her.

death it isn’t about closeness I’m not going to go into it any more but I did explain in my OP that she has a lot of support around her.

HeadShouldersKnees
Go out and turn your phone off. He will be absolutely fine believe me. Just suits him better for you not to have a life and be able to go out. Does your DH ever get a night out without the kids?

Sorry but I don't believe you about her husband. Unless you're there 24/7 (in which case that's a bit weird), you have no idea if he is being helpful or not.

A friend of mine has a partner that appears helpful, good with the kid etc. He isn't. I knew before others that he wasn't, the way he is with the kid is just off. It's now coming out that he isn't helpful in the slightest.

Seen it happen too many times in many families, the dad appears to be helpful and great in company, but it's always false, its a wonder anyone believes it. The mother does the majority.

I agree. She’s just not as bothered. She’s sees you as a coffee with kids kind of person. She doesn’t invite you out on any weekend evenings.
It’s quite a hard thing to accept that someone has slightly moved on. They enjoy mum friends who they feel they have more in common with. But life works like that with friends.
You may find that you reconnect later in life.

It seems clear that she doesn't want to 'waste' her child free time on you sadly.

This would drive me mad op, but I think you’re coming to the right conclusion that you both just have different priorities.

I would leave it and if she gets in touch with you suggest going without the kids. If she’s not up for it then it’s up to you I guess, I would just suggest if she has any time on her own to call you. Leave it in her court

Personally there's nothing more I'd love than coffee / drinks out with my friend BUT
I have no childcare and my husband is shit and isn't confident enough to look after my little girl on his own. Any night he has, he's just txt me asking when I'm home so it's not worth the hassle.

Is he that incompetent in other areas of your life?

YANBU at all to want this, but I think you would be U to pressurize her about it. It would be fine to suggest occasionally that you meet as 'just us, without anyone else, even the children' ; but not to complain if she can't or can only do it occasionally. Maybe one or both of the children are at a very clingy 'mummyish' stage and don't do well, even with daddy, when mummy goes out. Maybe daddy isn't great at dealing with children's physical needs (yes, it would be better if he were, but you can't make him be). Presumably when the children start school, etc, and become older and less clingy, their mum will have more child-free time (unless she intends to have a kid every 2 years, or to go back to a high-powered job), so the problem is likely to be temporary.

I have no childcare and my husband is shit and isn't confident enough to look after my little girl on his own. Any night he has, he's just txt me asking when I'm home so it's not worth the hassle.

So he wins every time? Why would he ever step up?

Unless you think your DD is actually unsafe with him, put your phone on silent when out. Otherwise you're just enabling his shit behaviour and setting a terrible example to your DD.

I feel your pain OP.

Best friend's children are lovely and adorable, but you don't want them every single time. My best friend has 2 kids under 4, and every time I go over for a coffee, the time is dominated by the kids. Luckily, my friend is pretty good at still being up for child-free events.

Haven't read the whole thread but I agree with you OP. I found it annoying when I didnt have children and annoying still now I do.

Kids dont have to come to absolutely everything. I bring it up often, but one friend in particular is determined her child come to absolutely everything. It changes the dynamic and is dull. Her child is also poorly behaved which doesnt help!

YANBU in the slightest

It does sound like you both are only willing to slot this friendship into very particular spaces in your lives, and unfortunately those spaces don't match up!

If I see a friend daytime I will bring my 2yr. She is with me

If I go out in eve. Then she will stay home with df and prob be in bed

I work nights. I’m about daytime.

I’m happy to leave her with df sat am and go for a cuppa with friends and be childfree

But unless someone said to me just adults I would bring dd as daytime

I still don’t get why you both can’t go out one evening and leave kids with their dads

Yes you both work. But home. Tea. See kids and if need be go out 7/ if dp back and they put kids to bed

You go out for a coffee /glass is wine and chat in pub /over meal etx

Home by 930/10 depending on distance and bed

It’s one night - not every night or week

How far away from each other do you live

Yeah it’s annoying but maybe she’s struggling secretly with her DH being unsupportive so what is she supposed to do?

I’m sure everyone would think my DH is helpful too. And he is, in many ways. He does a lot of stuff about the house. He does all the nursery pick ups and drop offs. I work compressed hours, so he does bath and bed two nights a week.

But because he does all that, he won’t do anything more. Or if he does, it’s only after a row, and there are ongoing snide comments about how he’s doing bedtime AGAIN. He even moans if I go out for a run (he runs every day). So there is no way I would even attempt to get him to cover a night out, it just isn’t worth it.

That’s awful christmas but as I’ve said I’m as positive as I can be that’s not the case here.

But there is literally no way you could know, Festive. All people see with DH is him doing nursery pickup and looking very hands on.

If I am wrong I will donate the proceeds of my house to charity.

I do honestly know that there are awful domestic situations but that’s really not the case here and it’s dragging the thread off somewhere completely different.

Ffs, surely time to wind the thread up as you won't budge from your stance if it's definitely not difficult for your friend to leave the kids with her DH (you can not possibly know that at all) and we don't want to leave the house on a weekday evening (ok, up to you)