To ask if you think there will be a second coming?

[LuluBellaBlue]

This is inspired by the new Netflix show Messiah, about a second coming.

I really hope this doesn’t upset or offend anyone and people can share their beliefs and thoughts openly and without prejudice or judgement as I know this can be very sensitive for some people.

Following on from —binge— watching this series I did a bit of googling and it seems both Christian and Muslim regions predict this. (Not researched if any others do yet)

I’m not very well informed about different regions but the concept of this programme has really interested me, I find it fascinating that this could, maybe? actually happen!

Do you think there could be a second coming?!

(And what would it actually mean for the world? A rise in consciousness? Mass healing???)

YABU - no don't be so daft!
YANBU - yes, this could happen, why not?!

But that’s faith isn’t it @Miljea? I don’t think it’s fair to describe it as arrogant, I think it’s more of a surrender that in the absence of your own knowledge you accept a teaching.

As it goes I don’t have any scientific knowledge past secondary eduction (and the infinite monkey cage and bill bryson!) but I have faith in what people I consider more knowledgable than myself tell me.

I’m not superior compared to someone whose faith is put into religious teachings; neither of us would have been able to reach our conclusions for ourselves.

A second coming? There was not a first coming! Mary clearly did the dirty on Joseph and made up a completely unbelievable story that for some reason he believed and people still continue to believe to this day. What a load of nonsense!

I think the Jesus character from the bible is a compilation of historical figures and myths from that period. Also, a lot of his plotlines are directly copied from other/older mythologies, namely The Epic of Gilgamesh and Egyptian mythology.

There was no first coming and there won't be a second, but we will get more awesome stories and hopefully they'll be better written than the bible.

Don't make the decision whether or not to believe in God and Jesus based on others opinions.

My advice, if you want to believe would be to do some research online, start reading the bible (even if just a verse or two) attend a church or if you don't want to attend a church, there are plenty of more relaxed, casual christian meetings now. Then make up your own mind on whether to believe.

Yes, I believe in God and I'm a practising Christian. This is because I have witnessed and experienced things that cannot be explained any other way. I won't go into them on here just because they'll get ripped apart and ridiculed by non-believers, but if anyone wants to DM me feel free.

Not a believer. The bible belongs on the fiction shelf

@Madhairday

But the fact stands that the evidence for Jesus stands tall among evidence for other figures of antiquity

There is no physical evidence of Jesus. There are no first hand eye witness accounts. There are no contemporary accounts. The best evidence comes from the gospels, which were written decades after his death by people who hadn’t met him. That doesn’t mean he didn’t exist but claiming the evidence is strong and ‘stands tall’ is just hokum.

My advice, if you want to believe would be to do some research online, start reading the bible (even if just a verse or two) attend a church or if you don't want to attend a church, there are plenty of more relaxed, casual christian meetings now. Then make up your own mind on whether to believe.

Done all that, including theological study at third year in university. And going to church (politely) with misogynistic prats who made it so much easier not to believe.

And made up my own mind.

I do believe Mr C.S. Lewis provides some arguments to both sides.

The resurrection of christ

I'm a lifelong agnostic so it's no good asking me. I wish I knew, but having spent decades pondering on religion, and having read the bible and some other religious texts, I'm still not sure about any of it.

I think JC existed and was a charismatic man with many gifts, who genuinely tried to lead by example. Son of God? I don't know.

I think that the earth was probably created by a divine power, and there may be some sort of universal consciousness, but I'm not sure about anything else.

There are no first hand eye witness accounts. There are no contemporary accounts. The best evidence comes from the gospels, which were written decades after his death by people who hadn’t met him.

The gospels were written within the lifetime of eyewitnesses, with two of them most likely written by apostles and the other two by people who were closely associated with apostles - in one case by a historian. More and more scholarly research points to some very interesting things about the gospel accounts and how they display a first-hand knowledge of the geography, culture and customs of that particular period in first century Judea, which a more legendary make up of stories would never have been able to hold. As for extra biblical writings, there are quite a few near contemporary mentions - very rare, in fact, for a little known figure to be mentioned at all yet accounted for by the likes of the Roman historian Tacitus - a very thorough historian - and the Jewish historian Josephus (yes, I know about the interpolation, it doesn't detract from the main passages about the life and death of Jesus). Other near contemporary writings also mention him and the early church.

The gospels have the mark of historicity as much as any writings of antiquity. You could say they were biased accounts - you could say that about most writings in history, it does not make them useless in terms of historical significance. Far from it. I stand with my original contention, along with the vast majority of biblical scholars.

This video explanes it well:

Also, a lot of his plotlines are directly copied from other/older mythologies, namely The Epic of Gilgamesh and Egyptian mythology.

No they are not. Please cite sources that are peer-reviewed and not a list of so called similarities planted by one single layperson with an agenda, which have somehow grown in popularity despite being utter bunkum.

Of course not! There wasn't even a first coming.

Tacitus wasn't even alive during the time period when Jesus supposedly lived and the gospels were also written hundreds of years after that.

Furthermore, each time a person recalls a memory it changes. That's just how memory works. That's why a fish that was caught is five times larger by the time the fisherman tells the story for the 10th time.
Unless there are historical documents of the period itself, you'll never have proof. Romans where diligent recordkeepers and we have learned much from their writings, yet not a single record of the Jesus character exists. If he had so much influence surely the romans wouldn't have written about him, even just to vilify him. If we haven't found it by now, we never will,

It is also physically impossible for a human being to walk on water and no fermentation process will ever turn water into wine.

That video is full of misinformation that does not take scholarly research seriously, instead choosing to push half truths and sheer untruths in a lamentably bad way. For example, he simply writes off one of the passages in Josephus as pure interpolation, when most Josephan scholars agree that most of the material is in fact authentic Josephan. No mention of this in the video. Same with the assertions about Jesus/sun of god mythology - there is no historical basis for much of this. The Jesus Seminar, Zeitgeist and Acharya S have a lot to answer for....

I am not convinced there has been a first!

If there is a second coming, it won't make a difference if you don't believe, Jesus will come to earth with a army of Angel's who will wipe out the unholy and non believers, will resurrect the the Dead and will chain satan for a thousand years, to give every one a chance to live a good life and then judgement will reign down on mankind after the thousand years....
This is just one of the christian interpretations, I love studying religion, and tbh, you read revelations, it describes the times we are living in now.
Other religions have other ideas.
Other Christian Faith's too.

Tacitus wasn't even alive during the time period when Jesus supposedly lived and the gospels were also written hundreds of years after that.

I'd been clear that Tacitus was a near contemporary history, especially in terms of writings of antiquity where histories often were written at the least decades after or even hundreds of years after the events, so finding Jesus in Tacitus etc is quite extraordinary (the Romans really wouldn't have been awfully bothered about some itinerant Messiah figure wandering Palestine and getting himself killed for saying he was God)

As for the gospels, no they really were not written hundreds of years after the events. Not even the most liberal scholars would asset that! The first gospel was most likely written around AD60, less than 30 years after the events. In terms of forming of legends, historians say it takes several generations for legends to form in oral traditions, but they couldn't possibly form and be embellished within 30 years - especially in first century Judaism, where oral histories were so integral to how the community operated, with each detail finely checked over and over as it was retold (nothing like Chinese whispers at all, in fact.)

The fact is that the gospels were written in the time of eyewitnesses, most likely by eyewitnesses and companions of eyewitnesses, and are thus incredibly useful in ascertaining the historical events - even accepting the bias.

We even have copies of copies of extant documents of gospel writings dating from C2, so no one could possibly assert that they were written 'hundreds of years later', from this fact and a hundred others which place the gospels firmly in C1.

@LuluBellaBlue I have only read the first post and some comments after that but as a Muslim yes I believe Jesus peace be upon him will return.

For me the information comes from the Qur'an which is an unaltered book (in Arabic). In it there are verses related to Jesus peace be upon him, where God explains Jesus is a messenger like Abraham, Moses and Noah peace be upon them and not God or 3 in 1.
There is also mention of him in the hadith (sayings of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) in great detail especially regarding the end of times.

I haven't watched the show, didn't know it was out yet but I have read people stating it feels like it is a way of misguiding and making a mockery. As I haven't seen it I can't say but I can share with you the Islamic perspective.

In brief, and very very brief, we are told of signs of the last day in the hadith. Every messenger was sent with signs to tell their people and warned against the one eyed liar.
In the hadith there is a lot of information about this one eyed liar. In Arabic he is called Dajjaal.
There are two messiahs. One is the true Messiah (Jesus peace be upon him) and one is the false Messiah (Dajjal/the anti-christ).

The series of events we are told is as follows that a time will come where it will be very difficult for a believer to practise their faith in public. It will be like holding onto burning coal. Believers will be seen as strangers so glad tidings for the strangers.

The time will get so bad that it is a time we probably don't want to be around then.

Before the coming of the Anti-Christ, there will be drought/famine for 3 years. Then the Anti Christ will appear. He is going to be the biggest trial on earth. He will spread mischief and he will also gain a lot of followers because you can imagine the dire state people will be in and the Anti Christ will be able to give food etc to people instantly. Apparently there is a seed being manufactured in some way that will allow a tomato to grow in a day or something but this is just something I read online and isn't part of the hadith but when we look at what's happening at farmers and them buying GMO seeds, their first year of harvest is great but then their land is killed off and they are unable to grow crops which is why so many are committing suicide, certainly in India this is the case. When the earth's nature fertile soil is being destroyed, you can imagine how we are inching towards that time of drought and famine and how when the Anti Christ comes with all his new technology or whatever he has, people will follow him as they will think he is the way to success.
He will claim to be a Prophet and then later on God.

As Muslims we are given a description on how he looks. He has one eye but the other eye is there but just looks like a squashed grape or something. He will have the word disbeliever written on his forehead which only a believer will recognise no matter what language they speak or read.

Before his arrival though, when the believers will be holding onto their religion like holding onto burning coal and the time will be so difficult for them, a man will be in Makkah by the Ka'bah praying. His name is Imam (leader) Mahdi. The believers will recognise him and make pledge to him to be their leader. He will refuse at first but eventually accept. He won't even know he is the leader until the time comes. He will be 40. He will lead the believers to some form of safety.
I've read comments about the Messiah series after the trailer was out and someone said it may be that they make Imam Mahdi to be the evil guy. I'm not sure if it played out like that as I haven't seen it as I said earlier.
Soon after is when Jesus peace be upon him will descend in Damascus. There is a description of how and what including him looking like he's just had a bath. At the time, the believers will be in congregational prayer so Imam Mahdi will tell Jesus peace be upon him to lead the prayer but he will decline as imam Mahdi is the leader. After that prayer is done, Jesus peace be upon him will lead the believers. He will eradicate tax etc.

He is the one who will win over the anti Christ who will first flee and then after be killed.

Jesus peace be upon him will not return as a Prophet, with new beliefs etc. He is a prophet and always will be but he will be a follower of the prophet who came after him and he will live a normal life and have children etc. Then the Gog Magog will come and destroy everything so the believes will retreat to the mountains with Jesus peace be upon him.

Now leading up to all of the above and amongst all of that there is mention of an increase in natural disasters, in fires etc. We are seeing that right now. As a Muslim I don't just see climate change but a sign of many signs of the end of times. Tall buildings and competing to make the tallest is also another big sign of the end of times.

As a Muslim I need to focus on my death more than the anti Christ because we are closer to our death than worrying about how to not get convinced by the Anti Christ but we are advised to read verses from the chapter of the Qur'an called Al Kahaf (the Cave) every Friday for protection against the Anti Christ.
We are also told he will have fire in one hand and water in the other but like everything else about him, he is a deceiver and we should choose the fire and not the water as it's a trick and choosing the fire will result in us entering gardens.

If we go back even further, we don't believe Jesus peace be upon him ever died. He is not Ever-Living like God because he will die eventually but when he was on the earth, they wanted to kill him, like people killed prophets before him. God protected him and so when the enemy came to get Jesus peace be upon him, God made that mana face resemble Jesus' face. Jesus was raised to heaven via the Angels.
The other people waiting outside for the man to bring Jesus, wondered why it took so long to bring Jesus out. So they went inside to fetch them both and saw their guy but they thought it was Jesus as now his face looked like Jesus. The guy obviously protested saying it's not me it's not me but they laughed at him and killed him.
Jesus is in the second heaven waiting for his appointed time to return and complete his mission.

There is so much information to share and it all links together but this is just a very brief summary to understand the Muslims view of Jesus peace be upon him returning.

Muslims do not believe he is God or the son of God but that he is a Messenger of God and he was born miraculously with just a mother. However this isn't difficult for God to do as He created Adam without a mother and father and Eve without parents too.
In Islam, Muslims call God Allah. Allah doesn't literally translate to God. It is an amazing word because you can't make it into a plural God's, you can't make it into masculine or feminine Goddess. It's just one diety worthy to be worshipped, with no partner, father or son or wife or anything. Just Allah.
When you translate the Bible to Arabic, the word for God used is Allah, something my Christian neighbours taught me.

I forgot to add, the guy playing the main character, his real name is Mahdi/Mehdi.
In Islam we have Imam Mahdi at the time of all this happening but he is not the Messiah but a leader for a short while. A good guy.

@Madhairday

You're grasping at straws. You're sitting behind your computer with your hands over your ears, going: "la, la, la. I can't hear you."

If, despite of everything you've heard (including from religious leaders themselves), you are still convinced of the supernatural, there is nothing I can say that would convince you.

That would be like trying to convince a Trump supported that their president is a con-man.

I also missed this out, in the Qur'an there is a chapter called The Chapter of Mary. An entire chapter dedicated to her. If you read it, you will find some of her story there and of Jesus peace be upon him.

As a Christian I live by faith with hope that Jesus will come again as it is promised in the Bible. No one knows when that will be.

But as others have mentioned I also feel we are in the end times.
How long are the end times? We do not know. But there are signs we are in the end times now.

Not sure what I believe, but loved this series it has gave me some food for thought and hoping there's another season!