To ask if you think there will be a second coming?

[LuluBellaBlue]

This is inspired by the new Netflix show Messiah, about a second coming.

I really hope this doesn’t upset or offend anyone and people can share their beliefs and thoughts openly and without prejudice or judgement as I know this can be very sensitive for some people.

Following on from —binge— watching this series I did a bit of googling and it seems both Christian and Muslim regions predict this. (Not researched if any others do yet)

I’m not very well informed about different regions but the concept of this programme has really interested me, I find it fascinating that this could, maybe? actually happen!

Do you think there could be a second coming?!

(And what would it actually mean for the world? A rise in consciousness? Mass healing???)

YABU - no don't be so daft!
YANBU - yes, this could happen, why not?!

I don't shove it in their faces so they (and I) have the right to believe what we like.

If religion was simply personal I would have no issue with it. Christianity is a proselytising religion however, moreover underpins much of the social architecture of the communities we live.
It controls women's reproductive rights, props up a patriarchial system which gives women lesser rights than men.
The influence of the church extends far beyond the adherants and church buildings. It affects everyone- whether we choose to believe or not. It's very naiive to say I don't shove it in their faces, because that is exactly what the church has done for hundreds of years, and continues to do.
Religion is way beyond the personal. It is social and political.
We all have a right to comment on religion because it affecst every one of us.
I find the people that do ridicule have quite a low intelligence because they can't have an open minded conversation. Really??

So people that question, or ridicule religion are of low intelligence?
Are christians a particularly clever bunch of people do you think?

I certainly don't believe in any of it, never have and never will.

Certain religious groups do themselves no favours though. The door knocking wanting to discuss religion and god with me is very unwelcome and rude in my opinion, it's cold calling. If I want to talk about it, I will seek someone out, not talk to someone who bangs on my door uninvited.

The last time this happened was a complete nonsense. A young lady wanting to tell me what happens during death and that it's a peaceful experience and nothing to be afraid of, essentially saying "god has your back". Upon asking her if she had any experience of this, she said and I quote "no, I'm only 19". This angered me, as I was currently off sick from work recovering from an episode where I actually thought I was dying (if it had been a bit worse, I would have). I politely told her that if you think you are dying and you are still lucid enough to think you are, it is the single most terrifying experience of your life, it's not peaceful!

Essentially, she was pedalling rubbish she knew nothing about. Until this kind of cold calling ends, religion will always be open to ridicule and a very healthy dose of scepticism. I'll never ridicule, that's just rude, but you can understand why some will.

I think aliens are our creators - and yes they will return at some point.

Maybe to fix climate change by giving us more technology.

I believe there will be a second coming. And when it happens I don't think anyone will be in any doubt about what exactly it is!

Fully expect this to be the minority opinion though.

well, if he's coming, then the fucker is 20 years late already.

Madhairday I notice you've mentioned Tacitus in a later post - I've read Tacitus and have a lot of respect for him as a historian but he was not a contemporary. of Jesus. Also, as a historian he wasn't making judgements or pronouncements, he simply related the accounts of the activities of a group of people who called themselves Christians after a former leader who had been executed by the Romans. He includes a lot of these 'slice of life' type observations so his mention of this is not particularly remarkable.

I believe. I’m a Catholic not a Christian (sorry :D ) and we are really not supposed think about it much rather be prepared for when He comes. I think there is a difference between Catholics and Protestants with regards to what will save us - Catholic’s believe it will be our good deeds whereas Protestants believe it will be faith. I think regardless of faith good people have nothing to be afraid of. Even those who actively reject Him ekhm

@speakout no not at all (with regards to low intelligence)

Let me explain, I've had phrases like 'people like you start wars' and 'boring people like you who go to chruch' or 'go and speak to your sky daddy about it'

I absolutely do not think I'm particularly intelligent. I just always make sure that when I teach R.E I say, please respect other people's questions and beliefs. We all have our own beliefs and that is fine.
I feel it is important for people to grow up in a society where they can believe what they like without ridicule.
If you feel the need to come back with ridicule or mockery (not you personally), then yes, that is low intelligence. I wouldn't dream of having that response to my friends of other faiths / no faith.

I find it interesting that many are saying "he" and "him". I would have thought on here there would have been an uproar over this by now.

@speakout but to add, am always happy to be questioned (and am a lot). I didn't mean that people who ask questions are unintelligent

Was David Ike not the second coming.

Also don’t believe there was a first. The bible / organised religion is far more about keeping the peasants in line than about a higher presence.

@PhilCornwall1 I think further back in the thread someone has mentioned a woman

I believe. I’m a Catholic not a Christian (sorry :D ) and we are really not supposed think about it much rather be prepared for when He comes. I think there is a difference between Catholics and Protestants with regards to what will save us - Catholic’s believe it will be our good deeds whereas Protestants believe it will be faith. I think regardless of faith good people have nothing to be afraid of. Even those who actively reject Him

This is what puzzles me - people are saying Christians will be saved, but which ones? There is so much variation between different forms of Christianity so how do we know which ones we should listen to? I realise each one thinks there version is the right one, but they can't all be correct, and for all anyone knows it might be some outlying group like the Westboro Baptist church.

The bible / organised religion is far more about keeping the peasants in line than about a higher presence.

There's a lot of truth in this statement. If you read the very early Christian sources you can see that it was movement of resistance against Roman occupation which was very popular with poor people who were otherwise powerless. It was only after that the idea was taken on by elite groups and rewritten into the orthodox version of what we nwo think of as Christianity. And that point it became a means of control by elites of the masses.

@lovelyupnorth funny you should mention him

I googled him and apparently he was the "son of the godhead". He also had an interesting taste in shell suits if I remember correctly.

I don't believe in it at all. However I am loving Messiah on Netflix I started yesterday and am up to episode 3! I find Christianity far too patriarchal. It does have its good points though but it still isn't something I believe in.

Angry MN voice - "shouldn't this be moved to the sex topic! "
Total atheist here - salvation and destruction are entirely earth bound matters. Further more often matters of total chance to the people effected.

Probably already here and decided to keep a low profile

Hello @SaskiaRembrandt, thanks for asking. I do think it's important that people cite sources which is why I bang on about them a bit when I'm challenging people on aspects like the Christ/mystery cult comparisons.

One good place to start might be Bart Ehrman's fascinating book 'Did Jesus Exist?' Bart is an agnostic/atheist and an extremely well respected NT scholar, and argues fiercely against the Christ-myth proponents, along with the great majority of other scholars of the ancient world. I like to read him and others like him - Lindemann, Hoffman, Sanders - so that I don't end up in a Christian scholar echo chamber with nothing but confirmation bias for my own faith. Having read widely, I've really never come across any serious scholarship that gives the Christ-myth view any credence. In fact, the majority view is one of pouring scorn on the idea that Jesus did not exist.

There are around 40 different sources within the first 150 years of the events which recount the existence and the activities and death of Jesus Christ. These include the accepted NT writers, early historians and cultural commentators (Josephus and Tacitus mention Jesus and his life and death, Pliny the Younger, Lucian, Mara Bar Serapion, Suetonius, Thallus etc mention early Christian practices and the Christ figure whom they worship), early church writers (eg Clement of Rome, the Didache, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp), and later so called gospels which were not included in canon for a variety of reasons.

We accept the existence of some figures in antiquity with only one or two (non contemporary) sources, yet so many try to discount the sources around Jesus Christ when there are a startling number which mention a random preacher in an insignificant region. Enough to reconstruct his life and death at the hands of Pilate even without the gospel accounts, in fact.

I won't info drop a thousand details on this post, as that would just be tedious. But you might like to read this comprehensive article by an atheist scholar who discusses the evidence for the existence of Jesus:
armariummagnus.blogspot.com/2014/01/did-jesus-exist-jesus-myth-theory-again.html?m=1

I don't agree with all of his assertions, but what is interesting is how he comprehensively shatters the Christ-myth theories and provides the biblical and extra biblical evidence, outlining why it is useful evidence in terms of historicity.

If you'd like a list of further reading in terms of scholars, both skeptic and those of faith, I'm happy to provide that as well. It's fascinating stuff.

An 'end times' discussion isn't complete without a couple of apocalyptic images from Australia in recent days. The terrible bush fires have really brought the growing effects of climate change home to me.

Yanbu OP Jesus will be returning. And it seems we're closer to that time than ever.

God isn’t real so no, there won’t be. It amazes me that in this day and age, people still believe. Have you seen Earth in relation to the rest of the universe? It’s like a speck of dust. Why would a god choose to create that? It’s all bollocks and you’re a cult member if you believe.

People have been identifying their own epoch as the 'End Time' for centuries. They come, they go, we endure. Everyone should watch The Life of Brian. And pp, a religion that tells you 'we're really not supposed to think about . . . ' something? That's terrible. I'm sorry you don't see that.

it was movement of resistance against Roman occupation which was very popular with poor people who were otherwise powerless. It was only after that the idea was taken on by elite groups and rewritten into the orthodox version of what we nwo think of as Christianity. And that point it became a means of control by elites of the masses.

In some ways that is true. It was a resistance movement in the sense that it rejected the cultural norms in the Roman world and carried out the teachings of Jesus when it came to upholding the weak, the poor, the oppressed. Early Christian communities spent most of their time feeding the poor, rescuing baby girls from rubbish dumps, treating those who were sick and dying, opening their table to all. It was a dynamic and quickly spreading movement because its followers actually did the stuff they said they believed in - they subverted the culture in such a way that Nero decided they'd be as good a scapegoat as any to hang society's problems on so started a vicious persecution campaign. The early Roman governors certainly were not keen on the Christians refusal to bow the knee to the emperor and authorities, and even less their propensity to do social justice and change the narrative around oppression of women, children and slaves. There's a brilliant book by Nick Page, Nearly Infallible History of Christianity [[https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1444750135/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_XjfeEbCGBHV80?tag=mumsnetforu03-21 A nearly infallible history of Christianity]] which takes a light-hearted and humourous tour through how the movement started and spread so quickly, then how things developed through history, including how the state eventually sanctioned it as the official religion and things went a bit, well, tits up really, and it got somewhat off course from what it was intended to be - yet how there were always the revolutionaries, always the core who really believed what Jesus said and worked to further his kingdom instead of the power structures inherent in state sanctioned religion.

Sorry about the link mess up there.