To think my daughter shouldn't have to share a room with a boy!

[GColdtimer]

Because if you are in Oxfordshire, the council thinks schools should facilitate mixed sex dorm rooms for residential trips, as well as allowing mixed sex loos, changing rooms and sports.

It's on this thread thread

What has happened in your own house, MsTSwift?

Once all sex segregation is removed, all males will be free to share all spaces with women and children.

Very true. Those that are trying to take control have managed to persuade those in power that it’s bigoted to treat males who say they’re trans, the same as those males that don’t say they’re trans. How long will it be before they start saying it’s bigoted to treat males that don’t say they’re trans as if they’re a risk?

I have Ds's and I would hate this! I would feel it was extremely unfair to put any child in this position.
I have spoke to my ds 15 about allowing himself in stupid situations.
One of the girls who works for me is 17, the other day she went out got drunk lost her friend, (well they had a fight over a boy) got a lift with four boys she didn't know.

I had to hide how mad I was that she put herself in such danger as I'm not her mother. I was equally mad that four boys gave her a lift ( well drove around for a few hours)

It seems to still be a cool thing to put yourself in dangerous situations, she is a very lovely girl but is obsessed with making bad choices.
We don't need to put girls and boys any closer together we need to find an active way of teaching them how to keep themselves safe.

And not from some old white man who looks like he's never had sex - ds 15 said that. He said he's not relatable at all.

I host international exchange students girls only as we have girls Ourselves and rooms adjacent and dh clear no boys. Collected two students one was a boy with eye shadow. So I had two under 16s sharing a room putting me in breach of my obligations, a furious dh and confused kids (mine) “but he’s a boy mummy”. Worried about my liability to the girls parents...

Sorry MrsSwift, I do seem to remember you taking about that before. That was absolutely bloody disgusting for your family and that poor girl to be forced into that position.

So when the first pregnancy happens the first rape allegation happens I would encourage parents to go to the newspaper the mp whoever they need to ahh but then of course it will be the girls fault what are rape prosecutions at now 1.7 %?

Its clear as a society who we value the most it isnt women or girls

I know when DD was at secondary there was quite a few trans children and the girls especially tried to be inclusive to the point that they would rather withdraw from an activity than inform that they felt uncomfortable. A few school trips were cancelled due to staffing problems with rumours staff were unwilling to volunteer and children dropping out because of others going. the changing rooms had cubicles added and supervised. I do think we are looking at the end of residential trips.

Betty - v good point.

Thank you. A point which has sadly been ignored by all pp except you.

It's standard safe guarding really, protection from harm and protection from false allegations are both equally important,

Boulshired well, quite. Teachers won't, generally, be comfortable with this because we aren't utterly bloody stupid, & many of us are parents ourselves.

Am I giving up my Easter holiday to fret about what is happening in a hotel room containing four 14 year olds, where one of them is of the opposite sex to the other three, & I'm in loco parentis, & the parents of three of the children have NO idea that the fourth is of the opposite sex, & would categorically not have agreed to this if they did know?

No, I'm damn well not. It's a huge failure in safeguarding, it's a dereliction of my duty to keep ALL of those young people as safe as I can, it's a betrayal of the trust those parents have in me (& I trust other teachers to take MY kids on residentials & keep them safe).

I will not ever do this.

Which means, of course, that resis won't happen. Or they'll be led by significantly less experienced colleagues who are too woke to think 'erm, hang on a minute...'.

Or, y'know, we could just maintain single sex spaces - & provide single occupancy for students who wouldn't be happy in sexed dormitory provision.

I’m quite boggled at the concept on this thread that teenagers are more sensible about sex than adults, and that young girls are generally confident to freely speak up when they are uncomfortable, particularly in relation to their bodies and boys.

Set aside any debate about trans identities, that is just not a teenage reality that I recognise at all.

The guidance seems to have been put in place by someone who has never met and doesn’t remember being a teenager. Not fair to girls, teachers, parents and boys to blithely be forcing them onto the frontline of an ideological experiment.

Men are men, trans-men are men and trans-women are women, but those of us who have been girls and then women all our lives seem to have lost the right to the words and must specify that we are natal girls, natal women or cis-girls and cis-women. Many of us at work are now being told explicitly to specify pronouns that have been used to refer to us all our lives, as if we suddenly no longer had any claim on she, her and hers.

I haven't heard much about natal men or cis-men tbh, but perhaps I'm not listening hard enough.

the girls especially tried to be inclusive to the point that they would rather withdraw from an activity than inform that they felt uncomfortable. A few school trips were cancelled due to staffing problems with rumours staff were unwilling to volunteer and children dropping out because of others going.

This is one of the reasons it's got this far. Most people hate making a stand, being seen as troublemakers/bigots, creating a scene.

So all over the country girls and women are dropping out of sports teams/clubs that now have transgirls/women, or not joining in the first place.

Girls are not drinking at school so they won't have to go to the gender neutral loos.

Girls are being withdrawn from Brownies/Guides.

Women are losing out on Women's Officer posts, scholarships, prizes and training programmes meant for women, places on all-women shortlists and so on.

Very few are making a fuss. Some of course have bought into TWAW, TMAM and so are saying this is all fine. The rest are either seething quietly or are just accepting it. Tells you something about how little women and girls expect, doesn't it?

The guidance seems to have been put in place by someone who has never met and doesn’t remember being a teenager

The guidance is put together by young naive self appointed experts who are not gender identity service clinicians nor psychologists nor appear to have any sense of safeguarding. Few people are actually named. Working in SEN myself, and having taught children with confusion over sex and gender, I completely disagree with the guidance Joe Butler gives on the NAS website for young people with autism, not least because they are even more vulnerable to abuse. (I urge to to check that out, it's unbelievable.) the other "author" appears to be a very young woman at stonewall.

Safeguarding gatekeepers have either not seen it or not scrutinised it enough or believe that stonewall et al have been through proper safeguarding channels.

'Authors' Described in the tweet below:

https://twitter.com/mforstater/status/1211335704669827074?s=21

I’m so glad I no longer organise residential trips. It is a minefield. I understand the right of the girls to not have to share with a trans child, but the idea of putting them in with the boys doesn’t seem like a good idea either. So what’s the solution? Trans child has a separate room? Not always possible. Trans child excluded from trip? It’s things like this that will put staff off running the trips in the first place - so everyone misses out.

That’s disgusting. What about the rights of the non-trans children who, after all, make up a far larger percentage of the population. The world is going mad.

I will refuse to let my daughter go on an overnight school trip then if the policy comes to my town. It is unacceptable.

Males do not want this anyway? I never heard a man say "yes I want to share toilets/changing room with women" it's lunacy.

Neurotrash it's actually worse that that. The original guidance was approved by the Oxfordshire safeguarding board and I don't think they scrutinised it at all. A couple of us raised concerns and actually needed to do an FOI last December to get any answers about the process of approving the document. We eventually met with the Oxford Children's safeguarding board chair (who also works for banardos), the director of children's services and a woman who said she wrote it )she clearly didn't). They listened to our concerns and said they would review. However they refused to tell schools it was under review, or that it had not been subject to an Impact assessment. They refused to remove it stating there wasn't anything objectionable about it (this review not going well at this point!). We then wrote to 300 schools in Oxfordshire outlining our legal and sg concerns.

There then followed 8 months of what can only be described as obfuscation by the chair of the SG board and the director of children's services. They then produced the latest 2019 guidance which is worse that the original. The chair told us that unless we raised new concerns he wouldn't talk to us, despite the fact he had never addressed a single one of our concerns or answered a single question.

But this is the worst thing. The guidance was apparently approved by the children's safeguarding committee. On that committee are senior reps from the NHS, the police, the fire service, social services, the ambulance service, district councils - all in charge of safeguarding in their jobs. The read this guidance and ALL rubber stamped it. The are an utterly captured council more concerned with appeasing stonewall and looking woke than doing their jobs.

Sorry for the essay but I think the context is important. This is not something that has slipped through the net. It's something that has been reviewed and approved by senior safeguarding professionals in Oxfordshire.

Well, this is their wildest dreams on a plate, for all the teenage boys of Oxfordshire, isn’t it!
Simply claim to “identify” as a girl, and you have free access to female showers, dormitories, changing rooms, the lot.
With self ID, you don’t need any evidence of transgenderism, hormone treatment or surgery - you don’t even need to don a dress - your own say so will be instantly accepted and deferred to.
What teenage boy wouldn’t take up such a fab invitation?
Endless opportunities for voyeurism and abuse, and the girls forced to comply by the teaching staff, who otherwise accuse them of bigotry.
What could possibly go wrong...?

Thank you GColdtimer and everyone who is involved in challenging this.
This is a massive social experiment being inflicted on women and children by an unrepresentative and tiny percentage of the population who wield an immense amount of power and influence (mainly gained through threats and intimidation). The consequences are immense - both for the children being groomed into believing that they're in the wrong body and that a lifetime of drugs and body mutilation will resolve their inner conflicts and also for women (and men) who are having their rights to privacy, safety and dignity removed by this movement.
For safeguarding boards to advocate for this is terrifying for the safety of children.

And all you need is one woke teacher in school who is eager to implement the policy. In our situation, it was the head of the school’s LGBT club (and my DD’s YH) who implemented the LGBT Youth Scotland guidance to schools which is pretty much identical to the one in Oxfordshire. This teacher told my unaware 17 year old son that my DD was now a boy at school, formally implemented this across the school, but didn’t tell us. When I did find out via our son and then met with the teacher, I was told that as parents, we had no say in the matter. He directed me to Mermaids instead.

We then complained to the Head and it was upheld, but I am now in the position of constantly having to keep on top of the school because of this “enthusiastic” woke teacher, including things like making sure she won’t be put into the boys’ accommodation/showers for her upcoming school trip.

None of this is highlighted to parents- I’d be willing to bet 99% of parents are unaware these policies even exist. It certainly would have never occurred to me.

rodgmum
That's an awful thing to happen - and so pleased that the Head upheld your complaint. And doesn't it just highlight the power of an individual teacher to push their own personal viewpoint using a child as collateral? In many schools (perhaps with a more confident Head) a teacher crossing so many boundaries, (confidentiality, parental alienation, safeguarding to name a few) would be instantly removed from having any influence with vulnerable children.

Similar thing happened at my child’s school.
A teenager transitioned at school without parents knowing.
LGBTQ club lead was deferred to by all the other staff. Staff said this person knew best.
Staff had also had training in an inset day so knew this was an ok policy. Even if they had qualms, they hid behind their training. It kept them safe

Flip this around. Would you be happy with a a slightly-built 15 year old ftm trans sharing with a dorm full of boys. If not, why not?

Why would a FTM 15 year old be slightly built?
Have you not trained all your 15 year old male pupils to be kind to feminine boys? If not why not?

I’m entirely on board with the need to enforce separate dorms showers, and toilets for girls and boys, based on EA 2010 provision for same sex spaces.
There is another issue here, which is the breathless rush to affirm kids in their desired gender. Such objective data as exists suggests that up to 90% of these kids revert to their original sex so long as they are not forced down the road of medical intervention or surgery. I wish more psychological support was available for them instead of Mermaids and Stonewall propaganda.