To think my daughter shouldn't have to share a room with a boy!

[GColdtimer]

Because if you are in Oxfordshire, the council thinks schools should facilitate mixed sex dorm rooms for residential trips, as well as allowing mixed sex loos, changing rooms and sports.

It's on this thread thread

Lovenotes posts are excellent for use in safeguarding training, the "how do you respond to" and "is this a safeguarding concern" (yes) exercises btw.

YABU to post a ridiculously goady title about a hypothetical situation that hasn't actually happened to your daughter at all. You have no idea how the school would handle it or what measures would be put in place.

She knows exactly how her LEA advises the school though. Would you expect the school to go against the LEA guidance without anyone pointing out the problem? I mean, obviously I'd expect all parents to say "what are you THINKING" as soon as they know about this, but how would they know?

It's already in force.

This is how it can already be force.

There are several similar pieces of "guidance" that have been written by self appointed experts. These are used by various organisations or charities - eg the Proud Trust - who are bought in by councils, CAHMS or educational ests to deliver RSE or provide "diversity" training which then leads to gaining a "quality mark."

Quality marks or flags require evidence in a form, displays, policies, that a school or organisation are following the guidance on being inclusive. So policies are rewritten to evidence this.

As a number of these toolkits give this advice - please read the thread and link in the op - schools and organisations may follow this.

I've not yet come across any official safeguarding training that I've personally had in primary settings that covers any of this at all. And I'm very up to date.

What is stipulated, and has always been stipulated, is that children should not be told that trusted adults will keep info from parents. Yet these guidelines say in the case of trans I'd children to do so.

Cohle

Read the thread on twitter. It highlights the safeguarding loopholes.

Hypothetical scenarios are the basis of a water tight safeguarding policy.

I have thanks Neurotrash. The thread title is entirely misleading. This hasn't actually happened to the OP's daughter. She has no idea how it would be dealt with in practice.

Issues this serious can stand on their own merits without sensationalising, goady headlines.

Cohle If you would prefer a thread with a real life example of this, happening right now, I’d be happy to start my own thread for you to comment on.

YANBU. It’s baffling that people trained in safeguarding can’t see the obvious issues. I am so worried for our girls.

Cohle

Again,

Hypothetical scenarios are the basis of a water tight safeguarding policy.

This may very well be an actual situation; she's unlikely to go into details here.

The risk to trans men/boys is considerable. I know this is a Daily Mail link but think about the implications. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4978220/Transgender-man-speaks-serial-sex-attacker-jailed.html

Mr Wilson said: 'I thought he was joking on because I had already explained, yes, I'm a trans man. I identify as a man, I'm attracted to women, I didn't see why he could be serious. That was when he forced himself on me.'

The rapist mentioned is serving 15 years for rape.

I had a phone call from my dd school asking if she could share a tent with a transgender m-f child on an upcoming camping trip. School explained exactly how it would work and I had no issues with it- as my dd has already said she was ok with it.
However, she was considering a hot tub party for her 13th and eventually decided against it as she didn’t want to be in her swimming costume and changing with this child, but felt it would be rude not to invite her.
Kids are much better at this stuff than we are and are also pretty vocal at speaking up when they are uncomfortable in my experience.

She has no idea how it would be dealt with in practice. this is council policy. Or do policies mean nothing?

100% spot on, WeeSleekit.

Kids are much better at this stuff than we are and are also pretty vocal at speaking up when they are uncomfortable in my experience.

Unfortunately within a school following this guidance she'd be singled out as being the issue and told to accept it or given her own space. Signalling she's the problem.

What age? If developing then should have a private cubicle to change in anyway. The girls are worse than boys for bullying when you are an early developer.

My goodness, it’s amazing how quick the defenders are at jumping on here to shout, nothing to see here! Just be nice women and move along. It doesn’t work anymore. We don’t care what you throw at us, what lies you tell and what accusations you make, we’ll continue to discuss issues that affect the safety, dignity and rights of children, no matter how much you froth.

So you've allowed your 12 year old to carry out her own safeguarding @UnicornPug, as have the school.
Would you also allow her to decide if it was OK to meet up with someone she'd contacted online? To play rugby in a mixed game when some of the boys have been through puberty? To share a bed with a 15 year boy?

are also pretty vocal at speaking up when they are uncomfortable in my experience.

Of course they are. That’s why no child ever gets sexually, mentally or physically abused, isn’t it? Of course young girls are not called bigots and transphobic for not wanting to change in front of males that want to be seen as girls, are they?

So basically the real possibility of kids having under age sex in what are now mixed sex dorms now falls within what’s still laughably called safeguarding. Hilarious which idiot came up with that idea!?! . I will not be allowing my children to go on any such trips if this stupid system comes to our area.

Kids are much better at this stuff than we are and are also pretty vocal at speaking up when they are uncomfortable in my experience.

Really?
Strange given that a huge majority of people who were sexually abused as children feared speaking out at the time and only found their voice as adults and even then a lot dont. So can you really say children are good at speaking out when uncomfortable?

Children look to adults for guidence and protection. If children believe they will be villified for saying no to sharing with the opposite sex by the adults around are they really going to stand up and say no?

I would be very surprised if the school did ring Unicornpig.

Not only would it be breach of the child's privacy, but even getting permission to do the ringing around would be problematic for the school.

I think the posters calling the title of this thread goady illustrate beautifully how important language is in this debate.

A girl shouldn't have to share a room with a boy. And never has had to until very recently. But there will be girls in Oxfordshire who have done and more who will have to. And if they object, they will worry they are being unkind. @UnicornPug has just neatly demonstrated the female socialisation this all relies on. Her poor daughter has changed her birthday party because she doesn't want to hurt a boy's feelings by excluding him.

I am a teacher, & would flatly refuse to take responsibility for a residential trip if I were expected to supervise opposite sex teenagers sharing accommodation.

Trust me, keeping Romeo & Juliet couples (who may only have become aware of each other's bloody existence a few hours earlier when their eyes met across a crowded coach) apart after lights out is tricky enough at the best of times.

Shutting them in a room together for the night is not happening on my watch. So the school would have to find some other mug to run the trip. Or cancel it, for everyone.

Safeguarding is not 'frothing' ffs.

Unicorn, I'm surprised that the school contacted you about a specific child. Wouldn't that be officially "outing" ?

Of course, schools could get round any confidentiality issues by making all parents of new starters aware of the trans policies and asking them to give blanket written permission for same gender changing/ sleeping arrangements. Say 250 year sevens each year... can't see that going well.