To think my daughter shouldn't have to share a room with a boy!

[GColdtimer]

Because if you are in Oxfordshire, the council thinks schools should facilitate mixed sex dorm rooms for residential trips, as well as allowing mixed sex loos, changing rooms and sports.

It's on this thread thread

So, GailCindy do you not accept that men, as a class, are a risk to women then? That 98% of sexual crime is committed by men?

Are you always so keen to dismiss facts?

Fairenuff yes, I know!

But I think teachers can cite the EA2010 as a defence against threats from eg Gail - sex is the protected characteristic.

& ultimately, before I agreed to let two opposite sex teens share a room, I'd suddenly find that I'd got pressing other commitments that meant sadly I couldn't run that trip anymore.

& I'm pretty sure most teachers would say the same. I don't personally know any who disagree - although I know a LOT who are nervous about being openly GC.

as people would feel more comfrotable that a child who identifies as female is genuinely a female in everything but sex.

Ok, I'm going to need you to expand on this please. What do you mean exactly by genuinely a female in everything but sex'?

You can only be a female in sex!

Wow, this has all gone a bit, well a lot, vile, since I last looked.

Two points I'd like to raise.

1. With regard to rape. Men have always been concerned about rape as a crime, because they considered it a crime against their property. Rape laws are derived from property law, not crimes against the person as other forms of assault are. They stem from a time when women were not considered human beings in oru own right, just the property of fathers, husbands, brothers, and rape was seen as criminal damage to the owner's goods.

2. I was really interested in the article NeurotrashWarrior linked upthread. It is very clear that many, if not most, children being 'identified as trans' by their families are the victims of homophobia. However, people rarely mention the opposite end of the age scale which categorically shows 'gender identity' to be made up nonsense.

We already have elderly 'transwomen' with dementia showing up, and far from demonstrating 'innate gender identity' those poor souls wake up horrified, day after day, wondering where the hell their penis went. Can you imagine the distress, every single day? It is horrific.

Can we just restart society?

And teach all men and women that we don't touch without permission, that no one is entitled to touch or make sexual suggestions or make any other person uncomfortable as no one has a right to any other person.

Its like this awful problem with breasts and breastfeeding. Women get harrassed as its supposedly sexual? No its just a part of human life, a fundamental one at that and breasts are not a sexual part of the body, but have a sexual construction by men.

That would truely solve the issue, then they whole debate wouldnt matter. As everyone would be safe and happy. Can't be hacking all this vitriol and horror (not on forums but in how humans think they can treat others) namely men towards women.

I just find it upsetting knowing some male to female transgendered individuals myself, who really are women at heart, and have no intention of harming or being threatening to anyone else. They just want to consolidate there gender identity with their physical identity. And tbh I find it really horrific that some men (and women) take advantage of the fact people are coming out and wanting to be themselves as using it as a method and a way of committing abuse and awful things to people. And because there are some bad people who commit awful crimes towards people, people who genuinely feel like they where born the wrong sex at birth have to face mistrust and fear although they may believe fully where should be female and not male.

Human beings are just shit.

I am now boggling about ten signs for lavatory doors which say "Gender Neutral Toilets" apparently costing over eight hundred pounds each.

"signs bearing a picture of a lavatory and the words ‘Gender Neutral Toilets’ cost an additional £8,070.70"

I can think of so many better uses for that money.

LittleDragonGirl

Dr Nicola Williams of Fairplay for Women is the one who, through diligence and determination, pressed the ministry of justice for their figures.

Unbelievably, until she raised the issue, trans people were not counted in prison.

So she went through every single prison report and counted them herself. This was jumped on by transactivists as being unofficial and biased. So she forced the Ministry of Justice to clarify. And they confirmed that her figures were, if anything, conservative.

fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/prisons/

My 15 year old son is very self conscious. There is no way he would feel comfortable sharing a room with a trans boy that he didn’t know. I would also worry on both of their behalf’s for various reasons.

I find it strange that on TV we have charity adverts to help build single sex toilets for girls in Africa and India because they are unable to attend school and also for personal safety. Yet here we are saying we don’t need single sex toilets???

@TalkingintheDark Where have I miscorrectly used socialisation?

I'm aware of what socialisation is, but unfortunately what my brain says (and makes sense to me) dosent always present the same way on paper -_-

It would be amazing if there was such a button.

I think what you need to remember is that safeguards and sex segregation is not about wanting to hurt transpeople it's about protecting women and children.

I am sorry but I cannot put somebody's feelings before somebody's physical safety.

The trouble with that Purple is that here in the uk people are adopting the word gender to mean the same as the word sex

This is an interesting point.

When did this creep in?

I always find it jarring when people talk about 'gendered expectations' rather than sexist stereotypes.

The word gender was barely used when I was growing up.

It isn't a 'gender pay gap' it's a sex pay gap.

It isn't 'gender stereotypes' it's sexist stereotypes.

High time people stopped pandering to this linguistic rubbish and refused to use the word in my view.

All people have a sex. It isn't changeable. No one has ever changed sex.

If some people 'believe' they also have a 'gender', so what? I don't care about your 'gender', only your unchangeable sex.

WeeSleekit This Spectator article is a good start to understanding how it’s all snuck in. The actual report from Dentons is very very long, but also worth reading if anyone has time.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

@Datun Does it clarify the difference between FTM and MTF prisoners? As im curious to see if the breakdown between ftm and mtf does reflect the same trends in cis male/female prisoners against crimes committed.

Because being devils advocate without a breakdown between ftm and mtf, for all we know it could be a majority of ftm commiting more male populated crimes etc.

LittleDragonGirl

I wish we could do what you suggest, 'restart society'. But we can't. And whilst hopefully things will get better in terms of male violence, at the moment, all we can do is campaign for the safety of women and girls as far as possible. Because women and girls are at risk from men because of their biological sex.

Women have been shat on from a great height by men for millenia because of their biological sex. They have campaigned hard for rights based on their biological sex.

And now what is happening? Women are being told by men that 'biology is irrelevant'. That is all about how you feel on the inside. Men are now redefining womanhood, telling women what a woman is. Calling them bigots is they dare to define themselves. And all the whilst women and girls are still suffering from horrific violence every day at the hands of men. Still being raped, still being murdered by men at the rate of 2 women a week, still being impregnated, still being perved on, still being secretly filmed. By men.

Fuck that.

@jellyfrizz @CallofDoodee

because sex and gender are not the same thing, you could identify as the female gender but be biologically male (sex).

Though I am shocked that people can literally just state that they are identifying as the opposite gender and gain access to gender seperated places. I had assumed that surely there would have to be more in place in terms of safeguards to prevent this being used as a mode of abuse.

Oh my, that is horrifying rodgmum.

In short, this is a handbook for lobbying groups that want to remove parental consent over significant aspects of children’s lives. A handbook written by an international law firm and backed by one of the world’s biggest charitable foundations.

Remove parental consent from significant aspects of children's lives?

That's a paedophile's wet dream.

This is just PIE all over again.

Good grief. will we never learn?

But what is a female gender that is separate to sex?

I think I have one answer that one, WeeSleekitTimerousMoosey . When the race relations act came in, that was fine, but a sex relations act was clearly going to be the cause of a lot of ribald laughter, so an alternative word had to be found.

The word sex at that time was generally/frequently used to mean the act of sexual congress, as in "have sex with", and hence led to smutty jokes and adolescent humour. -- consider the possibilities of "sex-balance" rather than "gender-balance", for instance! So the word which applied to masculine or feminine nouns and other grammatical constructions was adopted as an alternative, for use in situations in which laughter would not be appropriate.

We still talk about sex crimes and sexual abuse, because nobody not remarkably loathsome would take either as a joke, but gender was sortof safer in many conversations and definitions.

because sex and gender are not the same thing, you could identify as the female gender but be biologically male (sex).

But identifying as female does not make you female in any way, shape or form?

At best you are looking at the opposite sex from an outside perspective, with all of the stereotypes piled onto that opposite sex, imagining what it would be like to be the opposite sex, and then deciding that you would quite like that life. That's it. That in no way makes you anything to do with the opposite sex.

Though I am shocked that people can literally just state that they are identifying as the opposite gender and gain access to gender seperated places. I had assumed that surely there would have to be more in place in terms of safeguards to prevent this being used as a mode of abuse.

I'm hoping that's the sound of a penny dropping, LittleDragonGirl .

This is the stuff we are worried about. This really isn't a board full of women who all woke up one morning & thought 'yeah, let's go & piss off that nice gentle unassuming transwoman in accounts, just for the lols'.

The concerns are very real.

@CallofDoodee Unfortunately I am more then aware of the treatment of men towards women through my own past experiences.

I just struggle to understand why society has got to the point that to protect one set of people we must cut down the rights of others.

Why can't there be a middle ground where within reason and using sensibility that people can't just coexist. And reading a lot of how things are being done, I must say i personally thing the way regulations and policies have been imposed in my opinion have gone a long way into causing many of the problems (I agree if a man can just say "hey im a women/man" then enter womens/mens spaces within a few days, it is clearly going to be used and abused by some of the more vile members of the species).

Bolding fail! 1st paragraph was quoted from LittleDragonGirl's post.

@PurpleCrowbar I concede penny has dropped

I just struggle to understand why society has got to the point that to protect one set of people we must cut down the rights of others.

Well yes, quite!

And actually, I cannot think of another movement (rights for gay people, rights for black people, votes for women) that has forced anyone else to capitulate to delusions, to pretend that something is what it objectively very definitely isn't, and to impinge on another group's rights in the way that the transgender rights movement has been seeking to do.

When the race relations act came in, that was fine, but a sex relations act was clearly going to be the cause of a lot of ribald laughter, so an alternative word had to be found.

So basically because our media and politicians haven't moved beyond adolescence we all have to pretend there aren't two, clearly delineated, sexes in our standardly sexually dimorphic mammalian species?

I think I'll go bang my head off a brick wall.