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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think my daughter shouldn't have to share a room with a boy!

723 replies

GColdtimer · 03/01/2020 16:15

Because if you are in Oxfordshire, the council thinks schools should facilitate mixed sex dorm rooms for residential trips, as well as allowing mixed sex loos, changing rooms and sports.

It's on this thread thread

OP posts:
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Cushycat · 04/01/2020 17:40

I tagree with a pp that ignoring him is the best way forward right now.

Cushycat · 04/01/2020 17:40

agree!

GColdtimer · 04/01/2020 17:41

And agree with datum about not reporting Gail and the escalating nastiness. I would hate for this thread to disappear.

OP posts:
rodgmum · 04/01/2020 17:41

Cushycat I’m very pleased to hear you say that (am assuming you’d be equally be unhappy with my DD being put into shared accommodation with a group of teen boys!).

If any teachers here have any suggestions for what I should say in case I need to push back at the school again at the meeting about the upcoming school trip, I’d happily take any advice. Grin

GailCindy · 04/01/2020 17:42

We were told that misgendering the staff member at nursery would result in disciplinary so would go for a child. Same for teachers. Automatic sacking I'd think.

Cushycat · 04/01/2020 17:42

I really hope so Purple as kids get so much from trips away. But now we even have to be very careful of theatre trips (non-res) because of the 'gender neutral' toilet situation popping up in woke theatres. It is another huge safeguarding nightmare.

CatalogueUniverse · 04/01/2020 17:42

We’ve convinced you? Is that why you think bawling insults at us will change our minds! Interesting way to be influenced.

GColdtimer · 04/01/2020 17:42

Datun that thread just scratched the surface. There are 66 joyous pages of it to choose examples from.

OP posts:
PityParty4one · 04/01/2020 17:43

rodg

Could you not point out the issues highlighted by safe schools alliance?

Would that help?

Fairenuff · 04/01/2020 17:43

So in future everywhere should have sex based faculties and trans based facilities. So 4 facilities.

For the purposes of providing practical solutions this would obviously be the ideal and it's so simple.

In the wider picture we need to agree on words and what they mean because it's so hard to discuss, let alone make laws around them, when we can't define them.

This is how the EA could be obsolete. It needs re-writing with proper definitions.

CatalogueUniverse · 04/01/2020 17:43

Threats to livelihood. I’m going to need a bigger bingo card.

Cushycat · 04/01/2020 17:44

rodgmum of course!

Datun · 04/01/2020 17:45

Datun that thread just scratched the surface. There are 66 joyous pages of it to choose examples from.

Gawd. Altho I'm hoping that the more nonsense is spouted, the greater the impact when challenged.

Always the optimist, me.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 04/01/2020 17:47

Thankfully my child’s college respects women and men’s rights to sex segregation and I can be comfortable in the knowledge that my vulnerable daughter will not end up sharing female only spaces with males. The college has a mixture of neurotypical and neuro diverse students, so I think those in charge are much more aware of the risks of swallowing the woke propaganda. I’ve spoken to a couple of the tutors and they are definitely aware that they can support those young people who are confused about their identity without trampling on the rights of others.

TalkingintheDark · 04/01/2020 17:50

public toilets where apart from sharing the same space the stranger isnt going to be privy to seeing anyone else in a state of undress (unless I've missed something and people genuinely use public toilets with the doors wide open 🤔).

LittleDragonGirl you must have missed all the stories like this one:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6065075/Female-Home-Office-employees-refusing-use-new-36-000-gender-neutral-toilets.html

Apparently men do habitually use public toilets with the doors wide open. I’ve heard of this being quite commonplace in the delightful new “gender neutral”, ie mixed sex, toilets that are springing up everywhere, leaving women and girls distressed and ultimately excluded.

Yet another part of the public domain taken over and dominated by the male of the species. Who would have thought it.

CallofDoodee · 04/01/2020 17:50

Why do I get the feeling that GailCindy is also the type of person who, when a woman gets raped, starts ranting on about how she shouldn't have been drinking, or wearing a short skirt and showing her cleavage, she should have had her keys ready in her hand, shouldn't have walked in the dark alone, you wouldn't leave your house unlocked, didn't she know there are perverts on every corner, why didn't she keep herself safe, it's all about reducing risk etc etc?

PurpleCrowbar · 04/01/2020 17:52

I don't teach in the U.K. anymore, & this nonsense won't be happening where I live any time soon.

But if I was ever in this situation as a teacher, I'd cite the legal right of over 8s to single sex changing etc spaces.

& ultimately, I'd refuse to take responsibility for the trip unless individual sleeping etc provision was made for the child who was not going to want to be in with the other students of their sex.

Teachers are not contracted to do residentials, & I wouldn't be prepared to take anyone's dc away if I couldn't safeguard them.

I don't know any teachers who would. Bear in mind you need some degree of experience & common sense before you're allowed to lead a trip, which should hopefully mean it won't be very young wokester teachers lining these trips up, usually.

Ofc the risk is that residentials cease to happen, because no one will be willing to take responsibility.

Datun · 04/01/2020 17:55

PurpleCrowbar

As this issue becomes better understood, Equality law is going to become more widely read.

One protected characteristic does not trump another. And, under 18s do not have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

All children need to be taken into account. Equally. And provision can made that is a proportionate means to a legitimate aim.

Girls not wanting to share intimate spaces with boys is a legitimate aim. Providing those boys with an alternative is a proportionate means.

GailCindy · 04/01/2020 17:55

This reply has been deleted

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LittleDragonGirl · 04/01/2020 17:55

please excuse my terminology regarding gender appropriate toys, I personally don't believe in gender appropriateness being autistic myself and being much more male typical in interest, I was just using the most commonly used phrases as I'd assumed that would make it the most understandable. @midgebabe I must agree your wording is much better, I was writing it while rushing to get to the tip before it closed so in all honesty didnt put much thought into my wording.

But I do think it highlights the conditioning which children experience from a young age, that unfortunately although I'm glad to see the many refute the idea of gender appropriate, does still prevail much too often in society.

@Datun could you please provide a link to these statistics, as ive been unable to locate them and am rather interested to see, As i've tried to find research surrounding the issue, but kept coming across the phrases that its not possible due to crime beings classified as male/female not as transmale/transfemale and therefore not able to differiniate. The only time I've been able to find record of if a individual is trans is if it is directly linked to the crime e.g. transfemale reacting violently due to provoctation over being trans etc.

@Fairenuff I think its a difficult one thinking about it. I think part of the way its been handled is potentially to blame for the reaction of people towards transgender issues. I personally think that due to the proven and often comorbid mental health issues that arise around transgender that more access to appropriately training psychologists should be available, not to treat it as a illness but to offer support and understanding. By doing so would also help to stop this idea of boys mascaraing as girls to gain access to them while there vulnerable and to potentially help children experiencing a vulnerable process themselves and would also help normalise the situation as people would feel more comfrotable that a child who identifies as female is genuinely a female in everything but sex. Im suprised that individuals can just decide to claim they identify as the opposite gender and thus gain access to as I personally agree that is a safeguarding issue and thus causing fear and discomfort in others, specially in situations like changing rooms and thus very likely contributes to uncertainty and fear of transexual individials. Removing segregated changing facilities may not always be appropriate because ofc the protection children is important, and a female or male has the right to feel safe in a space dedicated to a specific gender, and i wasn't aware that people could simply say im female so im getting changed with girls. That I would also take issue and concern with, how much concern would be dependent on age. In my childhood throughout most of lower primary boys and girls got changed in the classroom. That was it. I feel that by removing all gender specific areas it may remove a child's ability to feel safe, specifically changing rooms for teenagers. But I'm a bit confused how allowing a teen who has identified fully as the opposite gender for years, is the same issue as all teenagers changing in the same room?

Toilets I find more of a gray area, as ultimately no one is going to see you while your on the toilet, you are not in a exposed position so I'm not 100% sure why its such a issue, It's been done successfully in universities, but they make use of toilets which don't have space below the door or above the door so theres no way anyone could see or gain access to a person in the cubicle. But they do so while still providing gendered toilets else ware. Which may potentially be a option going forwards, providing larger mixed toilets which are secure in design (to prevent fears over 'peeping') while still providing provision for smaller set of male/female toilets for those who really feel uncomfortable.

PurpleCrowbar · 04/01/2020 17:56

Datun yes, exactly?

TalkingintheDark · 04/01/2020 17:56

Also, LittleDragonGirl, you have completely misunderstood the concept of socialisation. It is not a conscious process that a child chooses to undertake. It is something done to the child and it affects the unconscious.

Parents, knowing their child is male, will be socialising that child accordingly from the day he is born. The wider world will join in. Male privilege is bestowed from day one, as is the sense of male entitlement so easy to see in the “trans rights movement”.

Biologically male people who identify as trans know very, very well that they are the “first” sex and that females are the “second” - that’s why they have such deeply held expectations that women should set aside our own needs in favour of theirs. Women, having been socialised female, fall prey all too easily to this kind of thinking, too.

Fairenuff · 04/01/2020 17:56

The trouble with that Purple is that here in the uk people are adopting the word gender to mean the same as the word sex. So if a person says they are female, then they are.

Totally illegal of course. But they're doing it anyway. And women who try to stop it are being subject to aggression.

PityParty4one · 04/01/2020 18:01

And women who try to stop it are being subject to aggression.

We are always subject to aggression whenever we say no as pp have rightly said.
Girls will also be subject to this aggression if they say no to sharing changingrooms/toilets/sleeping quarters.

jellyfrizz · 04/01/2020 18:01

people would feel more comfrotable that a child who identifies as female is genuinely a female in everything but sex

This is like saying genuinely rain in everything but wetness.

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