To have reminded DD that marriage is a serious commitment that shouldn’t be ended on a whim?

[CSalts]

DD married 18 months ago and has dropped the bombshell to me today that she wants a divorce and asked my advice. Apparently she’s been feeling this way ever since the excitement of the wedding wore off but had tried to put it to the back of her mind. DD and SIL have been together for a long time, since they were both 18 (she’s 27 now). SIL is lovely and very much part of our family. We are close with his family also and always celebrate Christmas and birthdays together. Both families would be shocked and devastated if things were to end. DD says just doesn’t think she loves him anymore. The only real reason she could give is that she thinks she met him when too young/wouldn’t choose him now and is tired of carrying the mental load (he can be a typical man at times, a bit forgetful and messy around the house). I’m told that poor SIL knows how DD is feeling and is desperate to make things work

I pointed out to DD that there are men far worse than her DH and that if there has been no infidelity or abuse, she should be prepared to work at the marriage as she has made a very serious commitment which shouldn’t be ended recklessly and turn their lives upside down. AIBU? They don’t have DC yet but have committed in many other ways, for example they own properties together.

DD is now upset with me for not being supportive, yet she asked my opinion. Should I have lied? Her view is that she doesn’t want to waste a minute longer in an unhappy marriage and wants to move on and find someone else before wasting her time further. All I ever want for DD is for her to be happy, but I don’t want to see her making a terrible mistake which can’t be undone... I’m all too aware that the grass isn’t always greener.

He is a "typical man" ? Did you mean selfish, lazy, expects the little lady to pick up after him ?

I would be glad my daughter knew she was worth more than tolerating the behaviour of the type of man you are clearly talking about.

Better late than never, I say

If the distribution of the mental load in the relationship is such that she's struggling with it while they're in their mid 20s with no children, actually I'm not sure how much I'd want the relationship to be saved. For that to be a problem now when they only have themselves to please and worry about, and so few responsibilities shows there is something very deeply wrong.

We've all read the posts from women who are with men who were useless pre DC, but they still lumbered themselves with a couple of babies with them anyway, no? You can't make them do their share if they don't want to. I would sacrifice a great deal before I'd see a daughter of mine be stuck in that situation.

if we did, we definitely would not get divorced.

Never say never...

You have made a major mistake. Your daughter Is unhappy.
She has told you she ha ls been unhappy for a while. Why would you assume that this is a whim?
There are probably lots of reasons she hasn't told you before, but she is entitled to walk away from her marriage, even one o a nice man.
Suggesting that many men are worse than him is telling your daughter that she should out up with anything that isnt actual abuse. I that really what you intended?
And whether ir or you like you sil is irrelevant. Should she stay with him because the family like him?
She is your child and she needs your support. Why not give it to her?

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom
It really is an incredible safety net.
I got engaged recently and my dad has always said 'you're never in too deep to break away, if that's what you want/need to do'
He meant in context of wedding plans, which I'm not planning on bailing on (I wouldn't have said yes! ) but that chat was so reassuring.
I know, no matter what the situation, I can go to my dad and he'll do everything in his power to help.

Sorry to hear about your dad

I have been thinking about this, and my money is on you being Irish, Catholic and from the country.

It is, BaubleTheLumpOfCoal, it really is. My grandfather on my mother's side apparently said to her as he gave her a stiff brandy and prepared to take her to the church on her wedding day: "If you don't want to do it, you don't have to, we can stop now." I like to think my father would have done the same for me if he'd been alive for my wedding! (He's long gone, but still hugely in my heart!) We're lucky to have fathers like that. Congratulations on your engagement and I hope you have a wonderful wedding day and a fabulous life together afterwards!

@LoveManyTrustfewAlwaysPaddle
Massive guffaw!

I actually think it's sad that some people don't think personal happiness is important in life. It all seems so "keeping up appearances." I could not imagine living a half life, feeling unsatisfied and being a martyr, just so I could say well at least I'm married.

I left a marriage after 2 years, he is a good man, I just fell out of love with him. We had a 10 month old DS as well. Shock horror.

It was the right thing to do, I have never once regretted it, my ex husband is happy, I am happy, our DS is happy. I'm happier than most of the married people I know to be honest.

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom Extremely lucky.
I can imagine my dad saying the same to me on the day!
The reassurances that provides, just a few words and the knowledge that someone's on your side and your side only, is indescribable.

Thank you very much for your kind words.

Being rather older (I suspect) than many on here, I recognise the dreadful acceptance of substandard marriages that used to be the norm. DH and I have been married for 48 years and we still love each other very much. I want the same for my children, and if they are not happy I would be horrified to see them stuck in loveless marriages!

We supported DD financially and emotionally to free herself from a failed marriage, and were only too happy to help. We now have a lovely son in law who adores her, and she him.

I hope you can be more optimistic, OP.

You obviously cant see what she has because she wants to leave him op-its not special shes not happy

theyve been together 9 years i think she knows when its over

All I want and have ever wanted is for DD to be happy, she is my priority

Excellent

Then respect and love her enough to allow HER to make her own decisions and stop pretending that anything else you have said is for her own good

Your daughters own good is whatever SHE decides

I have a 21 year old daughter and I would never treat her as you are treating your daughter @CSalts

jaichange and others - marriage in medieval times and later was most often a business/survival arrangement. Love could and did enter into it, sometimes very powerfully, but what the Church taught and what people actually did or felt or believed was sometimes - often - poles apart. You only have to read Chaucer or Shakespeare and many 16th cent poets to understand that past peoples' idea of marriage was infinitely more nuanced and sophisticated than a simple 'for better or for worse'.

With regard to life expectancy, if you were tough enough to have survived infancy and childhood and reached around age 15, your life expectancy in medieval/early modern times was around 60-65. Many more women did die in childbirth than today - which was one reason why sex was not always seen as desirable. (There was also a great religiously-motivated respect for female - and male - virginity.) But at the same time, many more men died in farm accidents, or in fighting, or from disease. Life was very uncertain.

The origins of Christian marriage are generally thought to have been in ancient Roman (and before then) ancient Greek contracts. These benefitted both parties, in practical rather than spiritual ways. By demanding female faithfulness, they reassured a man that his property would pass to his genuine biological heirs. At the same time, by demanding male faithfulness or at least care, they provided shelter and protection and a home for women, at a time when none of these could otherwise be guaranteed.

I think I'd need a bit more evidence for some of the statements in this article, but it's along the right lines theweek.com/articles/528746/origins-marriage

I blame my Catholic A level Medieval History teacher and Chaucer's Merchant's Tale for my complete misunderstanding of longevity of marriage in the Middle Ages!

She is your daughter surely you want her to be happy? She's confiding in you you need to support her and be non judgemental

Firstly, you’re making this all about you.

Secondly why the fuck should she carry the mental load? Why are you happy for your daughter to do this? Why is your bar set so low that you’re happy for your DD as long as he’s not cheating or beating her up? Why is your attitude ‘oh whoops he’s just being a man’? That’s total bullshit and I bet your DD is infuriated with you with that attitude and lack of support. How much effort is he putting in to fix the marriage? Or is it all on your DD?

18-27 is a long time to grow up. Maybe she has and he hasn’t. I am so grateful I didn’t marry the boyfriend I had at 18 and split up with at 23. We would have been divorced by now because I grew up and he didn’t, and yes I carried the mental load and it was exhausting.

It sounds like you’re more worried about what everyone else thinks and losing his family than supporting your DD.

Chilli “ Why is your bar set so low that you’re happy for your DD as long as he’s not cheating or beating her up? Why is your attitude ‘oh whoops he’s just being a man’? ”

Agree. It’s probably been a shock for OP DD to find her mum taking that view.

Hi OP

Whilst I appreciate that you are keen for your DD to not make a mistake, it really doesn't matter how much you like your SIL or his family. This is not about you.

If you value your relationship with your DD you need to listen to her carefully.

jaichange Very gracious. I' m always staggered by new bits of information from the past - and it's my job. Past marriage is a fascinating and very complex topic. Modern marriage and all the ideas/assumptions that the OP is dealing with are comparatively speaking very recent. Ideas about children's obedience to parental wishes and advice have similarly changed radically over the centuries.

I just wanted to add that you are allowed to feel sad, that’s perfectly valid. But you can’t use it against your DD.

To answer the AIBU part - I don't think you're BU, OP. I ended a long term relationship because I was deeply unhappy and the novelty of certain things has worn off - turns out I was just unhappy single and I just needed some perspective. The damage was done though and I wish I would have worked on the relationship first.

If you're grown up enough to get married and make a commitment like that to someone, it's not a lot to be reminded that it's a big deal & try counselling. Relationships are not disposable garbage. It's ok to get divorced or want to part ways, but I really don't think it's ok to not try first. Her happiness is just as important as his, so trying to work through their issues is a compromise. After that she can leave and that's also only fair. That's just my opinion though.

That being said, I think you should let your DD know that if things don't work out (or however they do work out) you will be there for her, and it's her choice. This isn't about you or his family, it's about the two of them.

It's not easy and sadly I know lots of couples in a place where they met young, stayed together and settled down, then the doubts and unhappiness came in. Some of them are happy separate, some of them happy they stuck it out, some of them regret not working harder on the relationship before calling it quits.

My god, I hope your daughter does what's right for her and doesn't stay to make you happy. Sounds like her bar is a lot higher than yours.

I left my ex after a very long time. It took me two years from feeling unhappy to actively leaving, and I only confided in my parents shortly before I left.

OP, your DD has likely been thinking about this for quite some time, hardly a "whim".

I think you are putting your own needs before her. If you stayed neutral you could help her think.

Why not say, can we rewind. I want to understand more about what you are feeling and what's best for you. Don't share any more opinions if you can help it, just ask her questions. This is her life and she must live it. I bet she will be happier if she commits to this decision that she will be better alone.