To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

Well, of course the OP is winning in the sense that she is NBU that she earns £47k and that is a perfectly decent salary (although I have read many threads on M where that is viewed as a pittance). therefore, I didn't vote because her OP and alleged premise in the first few pages were plainly goady and disingenuous.

Does it matter if teachers leave the profession vs transfer abroad vs move to independent sector? Bottom line is that there is a shortage of teachers in the state sector where the vast majority of kids are educated.

Either we think it is ok to have a shortage or we think of ways to improve this.

I haven’t voted on this thread. Means jack, Clav darling.

I also didn't vote.
The OP is happy with their salary. Good for them.

I'm happy with my salary for my job. Good for me.

I know someone else in a similar role to me in another school is stressed and underpaid because they don't get given the same amount of non-contact time I have for the role.

I know someone doing some of my role in another school without additional pay because it's been added into their role as a way of cutting money on TLRs by attaching to UPS teachers.

A vote on this thread is meaningless because whether pay is good will depend on the nature of the role, the school, what time is allocated to the role during the day in terms of timetable reduction and so on.
But goady threads are never set up for nuanced debate are they?

That pay scale doesn’t sound right as a beginners salary.
Is this real?

I went out for the day, piggy

I didn’t realise you were taking a register.

The thread wasn’t goady.

Have lola, piggy and others on here stopped to consider that they make education threads virtually impossible to have a discussion about? Because I agree with a hell of a lot on here - the teachers over 45 being pushed out, the problems relating to part time work - but I feel I can’t discuss this as God forbid, I think my pay is all right

Newyearnewnameforme
The thread wasn’t goady.

What did you expect to be the discussion when you left out what you earn, and what your actual job is?

Or any information to back up your stance?

Have lola, piggy and others on here stopped to consider that they make education threads virtually impossible to have a discussion about?

It’s not Lola, Piggy et al that are the problems and this line from you makes me guess that you were goading them to come on this thread, so you could prove a point (happy to apologise if I am wrong). It’s poster such as Clavinova that always steer these threads in the wrong way. That’s why I was a little disappointed with your initial first few posts that were pretty brief, left out details and meant a proper discussion was never going to happen (that and being the 1st Jan when you started it, was suspicious and always going to go down like a lead balloon and I think you knew that).

A better opening post from you, OP, that was not such a blanket statement that all teachers like you have it great and the ones that don’t just don’t try hard enough, would have lead to a more interesting debate.

I too think some teachers are paid well and have great working conditions. Some. Not all and not enough. And I hugely value and respect ‘just’ classroom teachers. Good night all.

Newyearnewnameforme - I fail to understand why you can’t discuss the other things? Why the need to mention your salary at all? Is it remotely relevant to the other things you want to discuss? Maybe it is in that if teachers didn’t earn so much, they might get kept on for longer, rather than being squeezed out for being too expensive to employ?...

OP has come back to stir the pot a bit more. We really should leave her to it.

A better opening post from you, OP, that was not such a blanket statement that all teachers like you have it great and the ones that don’t just don’t try hard enough, would have lead to a more interesting debate
Quite.

An interesting discussion could be had about differences in pay and responsibilities in different phases and sectors, or pay Vs timetable reduction (for example I made a sideways move to a school that gave appropriate time during the day to do my job well), challenges of bursaries being higher than NQT salary, challenges of UPS and things that actively hinder people getting to UPS and so on. All of those things will be relevant to a meaningful and non goady thread that might have been less of a green light for the usual drivel and claims that if everyone worked a bit harder they could all be on HoD salaries or higher.

To be honest, OP, your post read to me as ‘I’m alright, Jack, and fuck everyone else.’
Those of us that have been in this game a while have seen many many managers like you come and go. Mostly go.

I haven't read the 0whole thread.
I am an experienced teacher with a tlr, live north of Watford, ups1 and earn 40k.
I would like to earn more than that am therefore undertaking further specialist training as I want to be a consultant and undertake some private work. I want to be an expert in my field. I absolutely love teaching.
I can't fault the op's ambition and desire to be renumerated appropriately for her achievements. And no, I am not a bitch.
I would even go as far to say that teachers are too bloody nice for their own good! It's because we continue to spend our own money on resources, overwork ourselves to compensate for the shitty workload and take all the shit that the government throws at us that we are in this sorry mess. I look at train drivers and how they have faught for their pay and would just love to mobilise teachers to stand up for ourselves a bit more.
I do think at some point we need to say enough is enough. And yes, we do have to put up with a lot more than other professions for the simple reason that we are one of the only professions who get told what to do by people who are not in our profession (ie the government).

How did the football career go @JimmyGrimble ? Or did you find you'd make more money as a teacher?
(Love that movie)

Ha ha! Yes ... playing for City wasn’t a patch on the 40K I get as a teacher on the upper pay scale with 29 years experience! Still got my magic boots though!

OP, I tried to steer the discussion that way on pages 1 - 3 if you recall and said multiple times that I would love to have a discussion - with teachers- about pay progression, glass ceilings etc.. It was not me that started name calling and wouldn't engage. Your OP invited many like that on to have a pop really.

If you would like to continue with a sensible discussion on teachers' pay and conditions and promotion, especially of women, as I said multiple times, I am all ears.

I also said from the get go that my pay is all right. Well done us.

I haven’t had any posts deleted, piggy, so feel free to report name calling.

People have decided to rewrite the thread into my saying I was on £47,000 and so i was not representative of teachers generally.

That isn’t what happened. Teacher pay in a general sense is fine. Someone asked me very early on what I earned and I answered.

I’m sorry if I sound arsey here but I am not going to change my view because teachers of MN don’t like it. Collectively you are the ones who have goaded and provoked with snide remarks about the OP has left (I was out with my family) and endless, boring troll hunting. I don’t mean you personally here piggy but you have had a few attempts and I wish you wouldn’t. It’s so unpleasant.

For the first few years - no, it really isn't well paid at all for the sheer workload that even doing a basic job entails, coupled with having to work late at night when you are already exhausted from 'performing' at school all day. However, you do learn to manage it, so IME workload becomes less of an issue over time.

Otherwise it depends where you live. I lived in SE commuter belt. Sky high house prices (our 3 bed is worth £600k and CT was £270) but no extra pay - I was just outside the fringe zone. My pay was similar to yours.

Nor have I and I didn't mean you name calling me (although you did call me fucking bossy). I meant your OP started a bunfight. And you have specifically picked out lola and me when other teachers have actually had their posts deleted and been actually unpleasant. Do you shut down debate at work? Genuine question. Also a genuine question : have you worked in lots of schools to get to such good pay and/or do you have a supportive family network?(according to you : I actually think it's reasonable rather than excellent) because many people with DCs cannot do that. Those are the sorts of things I'd like to discuss with teachers.

I genuinely don't think I am the unpleasant one. And the person in general who people are frustrated about their non return is the one who said her DP earned 50k.

I would like to discuss other things than your individual pay.

I suppose it depends on your expectations. I come from a pretty poor family so my salary feels high to me.

When you compare it to tube drivers though, you can see what strong unions can achieve for their workers so it annoys me that we don't get more.

People have decided to rewrite the thread into my saying I was on £47,000 and so i was not representative of teachers generally.

But this is true. Not sure why you are angry people are saying the average teacher is not on £47,000?

That isn’t what happened. Teacher pay in a general sense is fine. Someone asked me very early on what I earned and I answered.

Because again, you didn’t put this in your OP, which was an odd thing to do and you were also asked very early on what promotion you had to get that amount but by just putting £47,000 with no explanation, the problem is that it gives a free pass to those who always like to start teacher bashing posts, without fully understanding what and how the teacher pay scale works in England and Wales. You must have known that if you have been around a long time on here. As the OP of this thread, you set the tone and have some responsibility in ensuring a fair debate takes place. Not name changing would also have helped with earlier posters wondering if you were genuine (which I appreciate that you are, it just doesn’t help when initial posts seemed a little goady).

work place bullying at it's worst

Yes, I can believe there's a lot of workplace bullying in teaching - judging by some of the posts directed at me (not a complete list):

"You may not get useful or reliable information from that poster."
"Chip."
"Seriously, just admit that you do not know what you are talking about and stop posting things that just show you to be ill informed about anything to do with actual teaching."
"Please spend some of your time researching today, learning how pay scales work, darling,"
"Oh, who woke up Clav the DfE propaganda unit?"
"I've got a great game of Clavinova bingo going on from my sofa."
"Clavinova you are soo jealous aren't you? and resentful? poor you. Failed your NQT year did you wink"?
"Oh yeah Clav?"
^"Hilarious that yet again your c and p skills are let down by your
terrible critical thinking."^
"Aaaah. She’s that parent."
"That's how Clavi operates on these threads.They turn up, talk nonsense, goad people..."

not sure this is worth 31 pages
I didn't join the thread until page 28.

It's quite bizarre really. I couldn't imagine being so obsessed with another profession

Yes - the last 'teacher thread' I was on appears to have been Feb 2019 - 11 months ago.

How do you know that I'm not married to a headteacher or similar?

piggy
I joined the thread at page 21 having already seen other posters pick up on the goady nature of the OP and other posts had already been deleted for troll hunting.

It's hard to think there's a discussion started in good faith to discuss pay and conditions in education when:

• it's put in AIBU
• Has an over simplistic first post to antagonise
• when asked what the salary was, staying £47,000 without clarifying this is not a standard classroom teacher (again it comes across as deliberately misrepresenting to anyone in the sector)

It very much seems like the usual teacher pay threads that are goady, but later it's claimed "I was only trying to have a discussion but calling the thread goady prevented the debate I wanted".