To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

That isn't the advertised salary clav that is simply the inner London pay scale. To get 49k you'd need to already be a ups 3 level teacher. Its hard for teachers who are at this level to move, because they are expensive and whilst the pay scale is advertised its unlikely that the person getting it would be at the top of the pay range

Inner London salaries at the top of the pay scale are not really representative of teacher pay ad a whole.

Inner London salaries at the top of the pay scale are not really representative of teacher pay ad a whole.

Absolutely.

Inner London salaries at the top of the pay scale are not really representative of teacher pay ad a whole.

Agreed - but I don't disbelieve the poster who said her dp was a maths teacher on £50,000 outside London - I know a couple of teachers working in private schools in the Surrey/London fringe area on nearly £70,000 - middle management.

Another advert:
English teacher Croydon:
posted 19 December 2019

£27,596 - £64,245 per annum

Permanent, full-time

Schools in Local Authorities in the South East outside of London have historically received amongst the lowest funding per pupil in England, despite the vast majority of this money being spent on staffing costs and the South East being the most expensive part of the UK to live in outside of London, largely due to astronomical housing costs. The notion that the OP’s salary could be some kind of a norm for a school in the South East is therefore somewhat farcical - South East school budgets are far too small to sustain many staff on that sort of income. London salaries are a further disincentive for teachers to choose to live and work in the South East - too many far better paid jobs within commuting distance if you do live there (even teaching is far better paid in London and just outside than it is in the rest of the South East). So no, in the South East, there actually are lots of far better paid alternative professional options to teaching, yet teachers do not get paid more in the South East in order to reflect that. As a consequence, yes it can sometimes be hard to recruit good, committed teachers in many areas in the South East.
Whether a salary is competitive or not kind of depends on the alternative options around you. There genuinely are an awful lot of alternative, hugely more lucrative options on offer near London, so teaching is very much a vocation in this part of the UK, not a remotely tempting offer as a result of the salary.

This is, obviously, excluding private schools - which frankly are just another drain on good teachers for the state sector in the South East if they really do pay far more than teachers get paid in state schools.

£30,480 - £49,571 per annum
Permanent, full-time
Science Teacher - Catholic Secondary School- Greenwich, South East London - NQTs or Experienced Teachers - MPS1
UPS3 - Permanent role - January 2020

That’s through Edustaff, which uses Reed (schools don’t) which is an independent agency that advertises that pay rate at the top on all their adverts as standard - probably to get more clicks but look at the MPS1-UPS3 statement further down. That’s what a teacher will actually get.

Schools tend to advertise through TES and don’t like going down the agency route, due to their extortionate fees and mid advertising like this.

This is why those who don’t know much about teaching, aren’t always accurate in what they post.

*Another advert:
English teacher Croydon:
Another advert:
English teacher Croydon:
posted 19 December 2019
£27,596 - £64,245 per annum
Permanent, full-time

From where?

The Croydon jobs is not teacher pays sales and we need far more detail.

The private sector employs a very small percentage of teachers and the PP who posted about her husband didn't say he was in the private sector.

Most teachers earn about 1/2 that, so this seems a little bit like putting out info that isn't accurate.

www.reed.co.uk/jobs/english-teacher/39594591

That looks like the Croydon one. It mentions ‘Lead Practitioners’ so sounds like an unusual amount of additional responsibility or different pay scale.

Or just clickbait!

ChloeDecker
You may not get useful or reliable information from that poster. Over the time I've been on MN they regularly appears on threads about teacher salaries and holidays to inform teachers they know more about our sector than we do. More often than not it ends up the same old arguments about how great pay is and a massive chip about holidays.

Like people say almost no one is employed at the top wbd of the pay scale as the schools can't afford it. Even if they were 60k is a pretty rubbish salary among my graduate friends in London with established careers.

The OP’s title should probably have been...

I think I am well paid for a teacher, do you agree?

The Croydon one simply states the range of pay from NQT entry to the top of the lead practitioners scale, it isn't really advertising for anyone at the top end.

Schools tend to advertise through TES and don’t like going down the agency route, due to their extortionate fees and mid advertising like this.

Similar teaching jobs advertised through TES:

Teacher of Mathematics, Essex
Closing date:29 Jan 2020 New this week

New Hall School Essex
Date posted: 1 Jan 2020
Start date: September 2020
Contract type: Full TimeSalary: Competitive salary, up to £48,819pa, excellent benefits & CPD
Contract term: Permanent
Suitable for NQTs: Yes

Mathematics Teacher, Enfield
Closing date:9 Jan 2020
Ark John Keats Academy
Date posted: 18 Dec 2019
Start date: September 2020
Contract type: Full Time

Salary: £29,064 - £46,326(Ark MPS or UPS (Outer London) £29,064 - £41,036 or £43,078- £46,326, depending on experience)
Contract term: Permanent
Suitable for NQTs: Yes

It mentions ‘Lead Practitioners’ so sounds like an unusual amount of additional responsibility or different pay scale.

Lead teacher pay scale referenced in this advert on the TES website:

Lead Teacher - Science, Northamptonshire
Closing date:27 Jan 2020
The Elizabeth Woodville School
Northamptonshire
Date posted: 20 Dec 2019
Start date: Easter of September 2020
Contract type: Full Time

Salary: £46,685 - £51,564(L6 - L10)
Contract term: Permanent
Suitable for NQTs: No

Oh dear - top news item on Tes - Scotland though:

"A drunk teacher filmed by a pupil in the street while wearing only his boxer shorts and trainers has been banned from the profession."

Salary: £46,685 - £51,564(L6 - L10)

That’s the leadership spine, so an SLT role.

New Hall is a private school.

I was told not to worry about no school experience, started the pgce thus September but left by end of October. I couldn't cope with behaviour management and teaching. Realised this job was not for me and instead to start a teaching assistant apprenticeship in 2 weeks. Luckily we can afford me being on apprenticeship as husband has a full time and part time job

New Hall is a private school.
Yes, I know - second in theology was up to £53,009pa - I didn't post that one.

Again Clav those jobs just list the whole pay scale, what don't you understand about that point? All adverts state these pay scales few appointments are made of those at the top of them.

You deffo have a chip on your shoulder about teachers

I'm in the relatively unusual position of having taught a decade in secondary before taking 6 years out and returning to primary 10 years ago this January. In secondary in a city there were promotion opportunities - larger schools and subject specialism does that. I was DHod when I left to have children.

When I returned, i lived VERY rurally, and all secondary positions were filled. (One secondary with a catchment of 30 miles either direction - dead mens boots for positions). So I took work in primary. It is very, very different. Small rural school in particular have one tlr if they are lucky. Normal class teachers have subject responsibility and often keystage responsibility for no extra pay or time out of class. The budgets are so restricted that there is little to no money for TA, let alone anything else. SLT is usually 2 or 3 people, 2 of them will still teach.

Now, I chose to move rurally to be near family that needed care, so in a way I accepted the pay cut. I also took time out for kuds and dropped my tlr. But now i'm stuck at my scale, and to progress means losing a TA. That's the reality for many small, rural schools.

I choose to remain and teach. Rural kids need good teachers. Nqt's won't come here because it's in the middle of nowhere. We struggle to recruit despite low house prices because one teachers wage still isn't enough to compensate for their partner commuting.

It's difficult - i'm unhappy with prp because despite years worth of experience, I still can't compensate for years of rural underspend, deprivation, and malaise. My targets are set alongside national and will never be met. But at the same time i do feel that teachers who have stayed, slogged and just delivered rather than climbing the pole deserve more. Particularly as these are ones being ousted in favour of cheap nqts and free school direct people to save cash. If you are over m6 and over 45 you may as well have a target on your head if you're not slt.

Schools tend to advertise through TES and don’t like going down the agency route, due to their extortionate fees and mid advertising like this.

Academy chains tend to use the TES. Schools that are LEA schools often can't afford it and have to use other routes.

We have a local LEA website that heads advertise on-it’s much cheaper than agencies or the Times Ed.

You deffo have a chip on your shoulder about teachers

No, I don't - I just believe the poster who said her dp was earning £50,000pa as a maths teacher - he may well work for a private school/academy chain/church school...

Clavinova - a school most definitely will not want to recruit someone at the very top of the possible pay range, as there is then nowhere left for their salary to go. They will be hoping to recruit at the lower end and have them move on to something else before they get to the too-bloody-expensive-to-afford end of the spectrum. State schools fret these days about having too stable a staffing body, because they cannot afford for all the staff to become too senior and experienced - but then also worry, because they may lose staff and have nobody at all apply to replace them.

a school most definitely will not want to recruit someone at the very top of the possible pay range

The poster didn't mention how long her dp had been teaching - he could be 30,40 ...