To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

Yes I would be well paid at £47k. But I am stuck in a small school with no chance of promotion. Stuck on M6 and I am part time. I have taught for 12 years and bring home just over £1k per month.

Does your school not notice when staff come and go (ours swipe in and out).

No. Most schools don’t. I have never had to and been teaching since 2003. This plays a huge part in teacher guilt and is quite rightly being stamped out by Ofsted on the Academies that do, which bully staff, both teaching and support.

Someone in pay roll who knows what goes on in teaching.

Hahahahahahah

and in other stuff that never happened

Some teachers prefer to stay late at school and not bring work into their homes (increasingly difficult to do this though) others, like me when I had a child, prefer to do as much as they can at home so they can be with their children even if they aren't doing much with them. The hours spent in school have little bearing on the amount of work being done.

We have to swipe in and out. I am also stuck on M6 despite having passed my performance management over the last two years. As a consequence I don't feel valued and feel a lot less loyal. Wake up feeling really ill? I won't be struggling in to have someone observe my lessons and say I wasn't very energetic so it wasn't good enough. Job going closer to home? You're damn right I will be applying for it. I teach three foreign languages so I might just get lucky! I love the actual teaching and kids can really make you laugh. I know my pupils appreciate me. Shame about SLT.

fedup21
I don't recognise the picture painted by the previous poster either.

There are more TLRs in secondary especially larger ones, but they aren't of the size for it to be unusual for a teacher who had taught for a couple of years to be on less than £40k.
In a larger secondary a large core department may have a HoD, second in department, key stage leaders and a pastoral team may have a Head of Year, assistant Head of Year plus some non teaching pastoral staff. There's also multiple whole school roles for literacy, numeracy, PSHE, careers etc.

In a smaller secondary, the HoD would be a TLR2, with a second in department sometimes only available for larger departments / a second in department who doubles as a key stage leader.

The majority of TLRs in secondary are the lower end of TLR2, typically £2,000-4,000 depending on the post.

People would typically get TLRs between 4th and 6th year and then tend to stay at that level or TLR or progress upwards if they wish.

Someone in their first couple of years of teaching on £40k upwards would need to either be on the leadership spine or have been moved up the pay scale plus a TLR1 for being HOD of a large core department (probably before they've spent any time developing their craft in the classroom).

I'm not suggesting that's true for all secondaries but it's my experience of them.

Job going closer to home? You're damn right I will be applying for it. I teach three foreign languages so I might just get lucky! I love the actual teaching and kids can really make you laugh. I know my pupils appreciate me. Shame about SLT.

Good luck. You may well get lucky as MFL teachers are in demand.

Thanks Kimono

There were no TLRs in my large primary school. None. The schools decided to spend the money on more SLT members (added another assistant head)
Most classroom teachers had responsibility for a subject, but without any remuneration.

This discussion really needed to be divided into phases. Secondary teaching and promotion possibilities are hugely different from primary. Also anyone receiving a London salary should make that clear when talking about their pay on here. Again - different world.

As for the long hours, it’s not always true. There are teachers in at 6.30am everyday and there are ones running in 10 minutes before the bell.It very much depends on what subject you are teaching and who else is in your department.

I often arrive at school not long before the bell goes because we have a family breakfast at home which is a non negotiable and then drop my DS at nursery. I do actually start work at 6am at home - I do an hour before breakfast so I have more family time. I also dash on the bell at least once a week but then work when the children are in bed. I don't claim to be the hardest working teacher in the world but my hours in school tell you very little.

This discussion really needed to be divided into phases. Secondary teaching and promotion possibilities are hugely different from primary. Also anyone receiving a London salary should make that clear when talking about their pay on here.
Again - different world
I agree with you. There's so much difference between phases .

It would also be useful to split the discussion contributors into 'people with first hand, front line experience of teaching' and 'people who haven't taught'.

Also, the majority of teachers are women who go back into teaching part time when they have children
Think about what you post for a minute. So in any school the majority of the teaching staff are part time? Or do you just mean the majority are women? It is not the norm to permanently work part time after dc where I've worked anyway - many do it for the first year or two (as this can be requested) but then return to their full time post. Part time staff are very much in the minority.
Also must have missed the memo about choosing a more financially successful partner..

40k after a couple of years? Never in my 20yrs+ of experience in the primary sector. I was a deputy head and earning just over this and that was after 12yrs. I was lucky. A friend who’s an excellent teacher didn’t manage a DHT role until last year after teaching for 20yrs. Many primary schools simply don’t have the budget to offer any TLRs. The country is full of teachers coordinating often 2 subjects within their school without any extra remuneration for the extra work. There simply isn’t the money. There’s often not even enough money to hire enough cleaners and I know a good many primaries no longer employ lunchtime staff, instead having TAs cover lunch and take a half hour either at 11.30 or 1.30.

It would also be useful to split the discussion contributors into 'people with first hand, front line experience of teaching' and 'people who haven't taught'

Agreed!

People who wax lyrical about their 20 teacher friends, none of whom ever take work home, all of which have excellent work/life balances and all of which earn in excess of £40k tend to sound like they are talking a lot of crap!

I'd say it is relatively well paid, yes. Certainly in comparison to my field, which requires a similar level of training and postgraduate qualification.

I'd say it is relatively well paid, yes. Certainly in comparison to my field, which requires a similar level of training and postgraduate qualification.

Which field is that?

And yes, my salary was a second income. This is common in the SE especially otherwise fed of us could afford to live there.
As for teachers being married to other teachers; anecdotally, DH has lots of lawyer friends with teacher spouses. That seems quite common. I also know from previous MN threads, at least 2 other teachers on here are married to lawyers.

@Rainuntilseptember the school I work in is an all female staff!! Over 30 of us!! Out of those there’s 6 job shares.

Our school has a staff of 90 and we have 4 part time staff and they all work 4 days. And I teach two subjects (one of which i mark for the exam board) and I have a whole school remit for MH which I'm not paid for. If I didn't do it then it wouldn't happen. There is no money for it. I do it because I know our kids need a MH programme but it adds to my workload like you wouldn't believe. I'm paid £40k but only because the the recent pay rises in Scotland. I've never worked harder. I'm marking today. I'll mark tomorrow too, and do forward plans on Sunday. I'm also sick of hearing how well paid we are. Not for the mental load I carry around with me. And if you're not a teacher, feel free to actually do my job for a day and see what schools are really like. The aggression, violence, lack of discipline, paperwork and unreasonable deadlines are all enough to make you want to leave. But obviously someone in a payroll office knows better about whether or not I'm well paid for the job I do.

I think you have to be careful with salary and comparisons. You have to count in all that unpaid overtime and similar .You cant just casually forget about it.In some circs id also count in travel time too and from work. I work from home and get paid as soon as i start..

I'd say it is relatively well paid, yes. Certainly in comparison to my field, which requires a similar level of training and postgraduate qualification.

Which field is that?

Based on another thread, a Council Planning Officer in the North, where she was on 30k odd.

Its funny all these claims are made about pay when the pay scales are published and people with direct experience of teaching know its not possible.

"My husband is on 50k with no extra responsibilities " either you are leaving out very important information that he is in the private sector otherwise it didn't happen, even a UPS 3 teacher doesn't get that in inner London.

All the "my friend has been teaching 5 years and earns 40k", either know people who have very unique circumstances (work in London,started higher than m3 for salaries) or are talking bullshit too.

My husband (NHS Graduate health professional) earned pretty much the same as me but didn't ever bring work home with him.

@surlycurly

Or join Aldi and start on £44K with a BMW!

An area manager's job - so lots of driving from store to store plus weekends/evenings etc.

Review on Glassdoor from ex employee:

Pros
Fast training, lots of responsibility from the start.

Cons
No work life balance, managers are unnecessarily harsh, expectation of going in on days off despite 60 hour week, isolating style of working, unsocial hours (like all retail).

A few teaching jobs currently advertised on Reeds for London/South East - up to £45,000/£49,000, e.g.

£30,480 - £49,571 per annum

Permanent, full-time
Science Teacher - Catholic Secondary School- Greenwich, South East London - NQTs or Experienced Teachers - MPS1 - UPS3 - Permanent role - January 2020