To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

Tbh, it does sound a bit silly to suggest someone aged 25 would know how to run a department after 2 years’ experience of teaching. It sounds a little bit like they couldn’t afford or find a more appropriate candidate.

Thanks @SabineSchmetterling - it’s interesting to hear comments about what could be improved. It seems that a lot of it is to do with admin like lesson plans, inspections, data collection?

I was v lucky to go to a good private school with 15-20 students per class and I have to say that I did find it useful having my work marked with targeted comments (particularly in essay subjects). I spoke to a relative whose son goes to a state primary school who said that his work is often not marked, or only with a tick/cross. Is it pie in the sky within our current budgets to mark each piece of work with appropriate comments? Do you think such marking makes much of a difference to students?

I am not a teacher but comparisons to other professions are quite meaningless as are other comments about what jobs alternative jobs teachers could do. Even if teachers left at 5pm: many teachers leave the profession within 5 years and there is a shortage of teachers. If people care about young people’s education, they should see that something should be done: either improve pay or working conditions - and I’m sure many teachers would be happy with the latter.

I started as a HOD just before I turned 25 after just 2 years of teaching

I am sure that you are very good at your job but that is madness and sums up exactly what is wrong in many schools. Two years of teaching is one year out of being an NQT - so one year on a full timetable. Aside from anything else you do not have sufficient experience of being a full time teacher trying to balance their many commitments. You have at best taken one GCSE group through - you haven't even seen a cohort through the school. How can you plan a curriculum without that insight?

Too often in schools if management even suspect that somebody has the potential to be a great teacher they promote them rather than allowing them to grow and develop. I have seen too many teachers burnt out because of this short sided thinking.

That's sacrilege isn't it? Surely by the time you've taught for three years you should either be promoted, or heading off to run your own behaviour consultancy firm offering training

It has become so in many schools and it is so damaging to the profession. I have huge respect for my colleagues who just want to be the best teachers they can be, before thinking if responsibility.

DP is a maths teacher on £50k, no extra responsibility. Outside London.

How? The pay scale stops at £40k.

DP is a maths teacher on £50k, no extra responsibility. Outside London.

These are the payscales for outside of London. DP isn't telling you the truth.

https://neu.org.uk/pay-scales-2019-200*

DP is a maths teacher on £50k, no extra responsibility. Outside London.

Chinney reckon. Can you explain how?

You would think an accountant would keep a closer eye on income and expenditure

Won't he just have a TLR or 2 though, that could very easily be 10k

Yeah but TLR stands for Teaching and Learning Responsibility and the poster claims no additional responsibilities.

Most of the teachers I know on UPS have at least one TLR

How much are TLR payments worth?
For 2018-19, the lower band, TLR2, is set at £2,721 to £6,646, while the higher band, TLR1, is set at £7,853 to £13,288. The more recently introduced TLR3 payment must be no less than £540 and no greater than £2,683. A school can decide to establish as many levels of TLR payment in each band as it wishes

TLRs come with job descriptions.

oh missed that, maybe it depends on their definition of additional responsibilities. Maybe they are in the private sector?

Someone being HOD after two years is ridiculous and a really good example of what is going wrong with schools.

A recent appointment at a school i know of was a teacher who had been teaching for 5 years to assistant head . This person has been in the right place at the right time for openings coming up and whilst their GCSE results aren't great and they struggle to recruit students for their A level they keep getting promoted.

Why would anyone follow the lead of someone who isn't very good at the basics of the job?

£47k is WAY more than the average teacher. Geez - what a ridiculous thread.

After 20 years in primary, outside London, currently leading in two subjects, my salary is £15k less than that.
I am one of those teachers who actually just wants to teach, and feel like this is where I have most impact and serve my profession and community best. Terrible for salary progression, but I would feel wasted in a management role.

Most people seem to agree that £47k would be a good salary for a classroom teacher.

Most people also agree that £47k isn’t what classroom teachers earn and there is little scope for most to ever earn that.

The only way someone could be on 50k with no additional responsibilities I can think of is if they used to have a significant role and stepped back from it but had their salary protected. If this is the case then the post is disingenuous.

Or if outside London means Dubai!

But it’s the same in any proffesion. If you are a nurse and stay as a ward nurse you stay at band 5.

@Piggywaspushed they could be at an independent school.

I completely agree with @Marchborn.

The only people I know who earn as much or more than the OP and who never take work home or work longer hours are ...ta dah!- people in a public service.

ie people in planning depts at councils, people in health& safety in councils, people in admin roles in councils.

They are all on £40K+ but work their 37 flexi hours and that's all.

As others have said, the cost of living dictates whether you think teaching is well paid.

In the north where you can get a nice 3 or 4 bed house for under £200K, then your teaching salary will go far and you will have a good standard of living.

In the south, you can't get onto the housing ladder for under £200K.

So, in summary and after 24 pages we have
1)£47K is a decent salary except in London where it is tough
2) Not many teachers earn £47K
3) those that do have additional responsibilities that take them out of the classroom
4) not every teacher can or wants to take on management positions
5) teachers don't tend to complain about the salary as they know what it is before they start
6) they do tend to complain about the conditions because these are deteriorating year on year
7) pay progression is increasingly difficult to obtain, as are posts for higher paid teachers
8) some people wouldn't teach for all the money in the world!

@fedup21has it in a nutshell with more detail provided by @spanieleyes. Nothing more needs to be said really.

It's a myth that private schools pay more. My DH is at a private school and teaches maths. he earns less than me by some way and only slightly more than an equivalent to him at a state school. For a while before a salary review at the local PS trust teachers there earned less than state equivalents but were generally happy with the pay off of longer holidays and (slightly ) lighter timetables.

The only people I know on 50k in private schools have significant responsibilities.

Good list, just to add further:

10. Teachers are not exceptional in working beyond their contracted hours and in weekends / holidays, it happens everywhere, especially at this pay scale.

11. Being promoted to eg HoD early is not always a good thing and shouldn’t be seen as an entitlement after just a couple of years experience. The responsibilities that accompany it are very different to receiving a small promotion in eg corporate world.

12. Few people factor in the additional benefits (financial and otherwise) of teaching (long holidays and not having to pay childcare in school holidays, for those who discount this because they work in this time, see 1).