To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

@Looksnotbooks, my DH and I did a very similar degree (history and politics). His Alevels are good, mine are better. My university is higher ranking than his although his is very good. After graduating, I opted to go into teaching whereas he chose law. I’ve since done a masters and he moved sideways into investment banking. He earns close to 5x what I was earning. Yes, his job is long hours and can be stressful but it’s not emotionally exhausting in the way teaching is. He has certainly never felt either helpless or demoralised in his job.
Also, he would have no qualms about employing an ex teacher if they were qualified for the job and had the drive he was looking for. As stated above, my subject isn’t STEM based but then neither is his. You are perpetuating the myth that teachers are unable to do anything other than teach or undertake ‘admin tasks’ and have no transferable skills.

Also being rude about admin, which most people are absolutely shite at. If teachers actually are any good at admin, then that’s a transferable skill in itself. Poor administration is at the root of a lot of problems in this country, thanks to the silly attitude that anyone can do it, when clearly most people are appallingly bad at it.

In my experience teachers very rarely complain that teaching is a low-paid job per se. If they do mention salary it is in the context that the working conditions and out-of-school hours are unreasonable for the level of pay. I'm pretty sure that most teachers I know would far far rather have a reduction of workload than a pay rise.

The OP's insistence that all teachers should just get a promotion if they want more money is idiotic. Schools have to have normal classroom teachers. They can't all be promoted.

About six years ago, I was earning close to that as a FT bog standard classroom teacher in an inner London academy.
It was the worst place I ever worked and I couldn’t get out of there fast enough.
Earning about £10k less now for four days in an outer London school that I like.
The cost of living in Greater London means I don’t feel particularly well paid.

£47K is a good salary but it would need a zero on the end before I’d ever consider teaching

Are you an independent school teacher OP?

lazylinguist I agree with you.
I tend not to find teachers who argue they are poorly paid, but do find teachers end up having to discuss pay when people outside of education talk nonsense about pay, terms/conditions, workload, holiday and so on.

I was earning close to that as a FT bog standard classroom teacher in an inner London academy. It was the worst place I ever worked and I couldn’t get out of there fast enough

MUST be Harris or ARK !

@CherryPavlova - plenty of teachers you know are on over £100k??? Really??? Where on earth do you live? Even in London that’s an exceptional salary for a teacher!

Please don’t mislead. It’s not fair.

The trouble, is once you hit UPS, particularly when you are UPS 3, it is very very difficult to get a job in another school without a tlr as nobody wants to employ you as a 'normal' classroom teacher when they can employ an nqt at 18k less. So you end up having to either stay put, or take tlr positions you don't necessarily want, but have to have if you want to move school.
Many schools will now not give tlr positions to anyone who is not full time. Both of these factors make it very difficult for movement. Particularly for people with children who might want to be part time. Or people who want to simply teach but in a different school.
Then for those wanting promotion... internal promotions are hard to get-you have to hope your face fits, within dept you might know if you stand a chance, but if non departmental it's likely already decided before advertised, if it is advertised. Hoping to change schools - you have to hope that when you get to the interview that there is no internal candidate. Or that you are not for example ups3 up against someone on main scale. And that's before you even consider whether it's a school.you want to work in.
So, I do think the op is slightly naive (or extremely lucky) in thinking it is easy to get promotions or to 'just drop back to classroom teaching' as it's not that simple.
And no I am not resentful, I've made the promotions and am now quite close to the top; I am saying it as I see it.

And good luck to anyone starting teaching now and hoping to make pay progression with the ridiculous impossible targets that have to be met.

Didn't earn anywhere near that and I taught for 30 odd years.

@tttigress DH is a Headteacher of a secondary school. He is responsible for a £6million+ budget, over 1000 children - their safety, their personal development, standards of behaviour, the opportunities they have, their examination results at 16 and 18, their routes to university or next steps, the quality of teaching and learning in their lessons, their curriculum, an additionally resources SEN unit, the SEN of any child who has those needs, plus 150+ staff- their well-being, their professional development opportunities, their appraisal, their proficiency, plus a huge building and site - the maintenance and development of that and following all the health, safety and security procedures.
It astonishes me what he is expected to make sure happens and to lead. He is also responsible for disciplinary matters, exclusions, attendance, building school numbers, governance, working with primary schools, relationships with parents, inter-agency work, community links, working with local universities.
Yes, he appoints staff to lead on areas but ultimately the responsibility for the vision and leadership and making it all happen to a high standard is his. As a secondary Head he is expected to contribute to the Local Authority development and leads a behaviour and exclusions provision group and a special needs provision working party across the local authority as well as supporting a newly appointed Head of a less successful local secondary school.

Is that really what you would expect of a manager of a medium department?

Its nothing like running a medium department, people just spout shit about teaching because they think they know about it, cause they went to school.

^^This.

SpaghettiSharon No misleading but in an age group where people have climbed the career ladder. Those who started out as classroom teachers became head teachers, regional directors, MAT CEOs, government advisors, author/consultants, chief inspectors, regional or national commissioners or board members of international chains.

I say plenty because most people I know personally who started out in the classroom are on reasonable salaries by the time they are forty five. Even my daughters friends are doing OK with her closest friend from school being in her first HoD post on around £40k at 27.

@CherryPavlova becoming a head of department after 4 years in a teaching job - 3 years out if being an NQT is not ideal. You need to learn and develop your craft.

Yeah people being HOD after 4 years doesn’t demonstrate how good they are, it demonstrates what a shit mess teaching is in.

Ex teacher here, for a fair comparison you really have to inflate a teachers salary by about 15% because let’s face it we do get an extra 9 weeks holiday compared to the average 5.

I don’t subscribe to the argument about working in the evenings or doing a bit of planning over half term. Everyone I know in corporate world works far longer than their contracted hours and makes themselves available to do emails or calls if necessary on their days off and holidays. Sad but true. So a teacher on £40k is earning the equivalent of £46,000, which is 50% higher than the average wage in the UK.

We also don’t have to pay for extra childcare of our own over school holidays which really mounts up as well.

I agree March. My husband often works longer hours than me.

She’s not four years out though. She went to university at 18. PGCE at 21/22. She’s taught for five years, I think. Maybe six.

@CherryPavlova you really are splitting hairs.

It is not in my opinion enough experience to run a department - unless it is a one woman department.

I say that as somebody who took on responsibility far too early in my career and it cane tumbling down. It is see something I see a lot.

I started as a HOD just before I turned 25 after just 2 years of teaching. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time when my predecessor was promoted into SLT. I did it on a 1 year “Acting HOD” contract at first and did it for 7 years in total. The person who replaced me as HOD is a little bit older than I was but took on the role after the same amount of time in teaching. They are doing a great job.

You need to learn and develop your craft
That's sacrilege isn't it? Surely by the time you've taught for three years you should either be promoted, or heading off to run your own behaviour consultancy firm offering training?

DP is a maths teacher on £50k, no extra responsibility. Outside London.