To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

The more I read these threads the more I despair for UK teachers when your neighbours are starting on the equivalent of £32k for less demands and a better work/life balance. It is atrocious the way you are treated!

Supposedly there is a shortage of GPs. My GP gets paid £90k and public sector pension. Are the pay and conditions the reason practices can’t recruit GPs?

I worked in recruitment in a high paying sector, unless you had a relevent degree (engineering, languages, law were what we looked for), you weren't going to be making the big bucks, granted there were opportunities to earn well but unless you had got into a graduate scheme or were just plain lucky, making over £35k was unusual.
Friends of mine who have gone into teaching as 2nd careers (following redundancy or lack of progress) are all now earning as much if not more than they made before in the 5 years they have been doing it.
None of the managers I recruited for would have considered an ex teacher for anything other than admin unless they had a STEM degree and industry experience (harsh but true).
I honestly don't recognise all these high paying graduate jobs teachers could be doing instead, they just don't exist for the majority of people.

Presumably you know how much you're going to earn as a teacher so why complain about it?

See my earlier post about not being able to earn what is advertised on the teacher pay scale because of the car crashes that are academies and the reasons for it.

£23,000 here, and before you ask, no, it’s not decent pay. I will be waiting years for an SLT post if I decide to stay where I am. YABU.

When a lot of teachers compare their salaries to the private sector, they don't usually compare like with like.

For example I would say a head teacher is equivalent to someone that is head of a sub department in a Blue chip company, whereas they see themselves as comparable to the CEO, and claim their salary is too little.

Why don't teachers complain about working conditions, i.e. hours worked in term time and the behaviour of pupils?

Instead of salary?

In my opinion, they have reason to complain about conditions, but definitely not salary.

No. It’s because to get to be a qualified GP you’ve done a minimum ten years training with exams at every stage. You’ve had to move to where the Deanery places you. You work long, hard hours and and have to study on top of that. Your salary is reasonable but you jolly well work for it and at each step an error (regardless of tiredness or lack of support) can see you in a Court or GMC hearing.

There are a fair few of us on here who have said that it’s conditions not pay that are the problem.

Why don't teachers complain about working conditions, i.e. hours worked in term time and the behaviour of pupils?

Most do. Pay isn't what most teachers in real life complain about.

We do complain about these things! When complaining about the former we get asked why only teachers ever moan and if we complain about the latter we invariably get called bullies.

I am at the top of UPS with some responsibility and so earn similar to the OP. I don't manage a large curriculum area and so I think for somebody like me who really is just a bog standard person it is quite well paid. I also add quite a fair chunk to my money doing exam board marking and various freelance work. Again those opportunities came easily to me. I don't think it is that hard to earn a good wage in secondary teaching if you are focused on doing so. It is getting harder with the rise of academies which I have managed to avoid.

However I think I am the least well paid of my uni peers - often by quite a significant margin - but they are mostly much smarter, harder working, more ambitious and just have something about them - I am not like that and my pay reflects that.

What is hard is that I now can't earn anymore unless I go into senior management and I have a good 20 odd years left in my career. However this may be the case in other jobs.

JinglingHellsBells I worked 12 hour days in the IT software development department of an investment bank for 50k when I was 22 ...
They weren't really 12 hour days though, in the same way that a teacher or a nurse is actually working at work. There were periods of very intense work, but there was also an absolutely staggering presenteeist culture and countless hours at work were not spent working. So much time spent chatting at our desks, chatting at the coffee machine, surfing the internet, chatting over internal messenger and so many long lunches including wine!

I wouldn't want to live like that now - I used to get in at 7am to get an hour and a half's actual work done and still be there at 7pm, at which point going out for drinks with the team was almost compulsory if you wanted bonuses / pay rises / promotion and to survive the next inevitable headcount cut... Not much time for a personal life outside work, but only about 60% of work hours were actually spent working, and that went for everyone - contractors on silly money, bosses on six figures who kept bachelor pads in Camden and family homes in Berkshire. Nobody was actually working 12 hours, they were at work 12 hours...

Why don't teachers complain about working conditions, i.e. hours worked in term time and the behaviour of pupils?

Because when we do everybody just rolls their eyes at moaning teachers.

However I do think it is getting better in key schools. I don't work the hours or put up with the behaviour you read about by a number of MN posters and would say the same is the case for most of the secondary teachers I know in real life.

- but they are mostly much smarter, harder working, more ambitious and just have something about them

That's a depressing thing to allow others to believe about teachers!

Many many teachers are highly intelligent, ambitious and very hard working!

But what they might not be ambitious FOR is higher earnings. That comes up time and time again in surveys of teachers who tend towards idealistic career goals.

The salary for an NQT in Scotland will be £27,498 from April, rising to £33,000 the next year. It now takes only 5 years to reach the top of the main salary scale with a salary of £41,412.
It seems that we are very lucky in comparison to our English counterparts reading some of the figures on this thread.

Are secondary school teachers paid more than primary or are they on the same pay scale?

@lumpybumpylooloo
Wow. Can I move to where you are?!

Are secondary school teachers paid more than primary or are they on the same pay scale?
The same scale but the chances for promotion are greater in a secondary because they are larger organisations.

Same pay scale for classroom teachers but far fewer opportunities for promotions and much lower pay for leadership roles. There will be primary HTs paid lower down on the leadership scale than even assistant heads in most secondary schools.

@CFlemingSmith
I know, I had no idea there was such a discrepancy! Feeling quite lucky now!

It makes a huge difference re location. I have 2 friends teaching in London who are on the UPS & have a TLR, they earned about 55k but now earn less as part time. Where I think teaching is good (if you have a good school & SLT) is that it's easy to reduce/flex your hours whereas many of my friends in the private sector had to give up careers as it was too hard to juggle. You can then increase when the kids are older & the pension is not bad.

Bog standard classroom teacher working in Primary.

Teaching for 23 years and I'm on £40490 per year. I'm responsible for a couple of subjects and mentor students but receive nothing extra for those additional responsibilities.

It's not been a bad job. I earn a lot more than many of my friends. I teach in the Midlands. My salary has supported me and my 2 children since I split with their dad in 2006.

I'm on UpS 3 (upper pay scale) of which there are 3 levels.